BLOAT-Need advice on dosages

[Ava333]

I have a 125 gallon tank with 1 Membe Deep, 4 Yellow Labs, 4 Rusties, 3 Albino Greshakie, 4 Greshakie, 3 Acie, and 3 Peacocks (Largest in the tank and not being picked on). I'm working on my M/F ratio right now. The last additions to the tank were 7 females bought online about 3 or 4 weeks ago. Already had a few females that were in my 55 gallon because they were being chased and stressed to much. I added them back when the others arrived. Things have been good sense then. I've had several holding females and am currently raising 2 separate batches of fry. 😀

Now for the problem: I found 1 Rusty with bloat and put here in a QT right then. I lost her two days later. 😔 I added Epsom salt and it wasn't enough to save her. Now in my 125 gallon, I have some sick fish. I have 1 with white thread-like long stringy poop. Another 1 is not eating well. And  4 that look to be constipated, as their anal area is protruding (I caught one and made sue it was the anus). They are still eating (medicated food). Water is good, Amonia at 0, Nitrites at 0, Nitrates at 20ppm NOW (had a spike to 80 ppm that I think stressed the fish and might have got this started).

Need advice: I do not have a QT tank now (fry in it). I am currently feeding Jungle Pepso Food, for internal parasites. I drained the tank to 100 gallons and dosed with 100 worth of API General Cure and will redoes per the directions. Water changes will be done as directed too. I also added 1 tablespoon of Epson Salt per 10 gallons of water. I will be ordering Jungle Parasite Clear today, as I can't find it here, and probably 4 doses just in case. Does anyone have any advice: using too much Espon Salt or too little, adding extra of the water parasite clear per dose? Raising the temp like with Ick treatment? Any posts are appreciated!

[Marty]

You probably don't need the parasite clear, as the Api General clear should cover you with the medication it contains.  If you treat with both, you run the risk of over medicating your fish and killing them that way.  I would hold off on feeding for a couple of days, and then try feeding crushed, shelled peas (frozen ones that have been thawed out if I remember correctly).

[Ava333]

If the sick ones still seem constipated after the 2 doses of AFI, do I use 1 more treatment of the Jungle Parasite Clear? And do I change the salt ratio? Or change the temp from 78*F ? And thanks for posting?

[Super Turtleman]

How many doses does the API require. I think I used it effectively to treat bloat, but I followed through with all its treatments. It would be best to have a spare smaller tank that could be used as a hospital when needed...to save on meds for that much water. Marty's advice is solid IME. Stick with the meds and don't feed until you're done treating. Hopefully it's not too late.

Sometimes, by the time you notice it, it's already done too much stress/damage to the fish and it's too late.

[Ava333]

2 doses are required

[Ava333]

Thank you both!

[Super Turtleman]

I would dose more than just two. Probably run a second course for good measure. But I'm paranoid about sick fish. Lol.

[Ava333]

Ok, I'm 34 hours into treatment with API General Cure, Epson Salt, and 2 feedings of the medicated food. However, per advice, I will not be feeding them for a while. I've watched the tank like a hawk and there has been no more white poop, the fish that appeared to be the most constipated looks a little better, and a fish that I didn't even realize was hiding, came out (the yellow labs look alike). Everyone in the tank looks at least a little better. I'll post an update in the morning.

Thanks everyone for your help!

[Ava333]

Update: I gave the 3rd dose of API and Epson salt at 5 pm today. Still not feeding. Still doing 25% or larger water changes and substrate vacuuming before each dose. I THINK I can stop adding salt now.

Now, all but 2 fish look GREAT. The fish that had the white poop has stopped pooping altogether. I guess that's better than white. The sickest fish is still slightly constipated. I did see a small amount of white poop though. I plan on feeding frozen shelled peas in the morning. I purchased a QT tank so if those 2 are not back to normal after the last dose of API (the 4th dose because the tank is large with kinda thick substrate AND I'm paranoid) I will move them to the QT tank and try an Epson salt bath. I'll try Clout if they take a turn for the worse. However, patience may be needed for a few days because of all the API doses (4 total).

[Ava333]

Last update (as long as things stay good). Gave the last dose of API (4th) this afternoon, did not add anymore Epson salt. I fed smushed peas yesterday and that worked for the sickest fish. Within an hour or so, she pooped then was back to cruising the tank and try to graze on rocks! EVERYONE looks healthy and happy, AND HUNGRY!

I probably could have stopped at 3 doses of API and Epson salt and been just fine. However, I doubt that the 2 doses, per the directions, would have take care of the problem. I could see that 2 of my fish were still sick and probably would have just relapsed.

Thanks to EVERYONE for the advice and reading my post!!!

[Ava333]

  Bad news, it's back! Woke up this morning to confirmation of what I thought I was seeing last night. I thought something was wrong when so many were hiding so I did not feed them. Now 9 of the 21 fish in the aquarium are looking bad, RUBBING their heads on rocks, swollen abdomens, bellies that looked like they had swallowed a cube, lack of appetite, and even 3 that had a swollen anal area again. The last dose of API was only 4 days ago! I've checked the water 2 of those days and changed 20% of the water along with vacuuming the substrate both those days. That might sound like a little much but I'm really worried about my babies and I'm paranoid. Sadly, I was not home most of the day yesterday to moniter them. All I can figure is that I did not fast them long enough.

This AM, added Epson salt back to the aquarium AND soaked their pellets in Epson salt water (basicly as much as I could get to dissolve in the water). Luckily, EVERY single fish came out and at least nibbled some food and kept it down. Some fish pooped right away. Some fish, however, had long, lighter colored poop that got darker as the day went on. Even had a few that eventually pooped the white thready looking stuff. That was 5 or 6 hours after eating but that has been improving to light colored poop by this PM.

Tomorrow I'm off to the LFS to find some API Genral Cure to soak their food in, I'm over putting it in the water after doing that for 4 doses. I was going to use the Tetra Parasite Guard for that but the instructions recommend not doing it. Apparently one of the active ingredients, Acriflavine, has been known to make fish sterile in large, consintrated, or extended doses (per Googling "Acriflavine for fish"). Just happy the box had a warning posted!!! Looks like 4 or 5 days of feeding medicated food. 😔 I'm ready for my babies to be healthy again.

[Ava333]

Update: Today, started soaking their food in API General Cure. I'll be feeding once or twice a day, depending on what my research turns up. Would have started sooner but NOONE had it in stock and I used all that I had!) So far I've moved my 3 worst and weakest fish to a QT and started Clout and Epson salt. They REALLY look like that's my only hope of saving them. 😟

If anyone has advice on how often to feed them the medicated food, I'm all ears!!! If the problem starts again after 5 days of treatment, I might have to resort to Clout for the rest of them. My babies are way more important to me than stained cilicon. I do have a 55 gallon tank that I'm growing juveniles in that I can move and free up. But will Hexamita stay in the substrate of the larger tank just waiting on fish to return?

[richly2enjoy]

New Life Spectrum makes a new medicated food for parasites called Hex Shield. This may help as an alternative source of medicated food (if they are eating). You'll probably need to order online, and read all ingredients and instructions carefully. You may also be able to use as preventative for a couple days if you move fish around between your tanks.
So sorry you are going through this! 

[Ava333]

Thank you for the info on the food and the kind words. They are improving every day now. I've even had to strip 2 of my Rusty females yesterday so I could keep them on the medicated food. I now have about 55 eggs in a tumbler!

So far, I've lost 4 fish. 😢 One I didn't medicate fast enough and 3 that Clout couldn't save (I even called my Vet who handles exotics). The rest look so much better, though. Per my Vets advice, I use half a packet of the 250 mg API to soak their food in and feed once a day for 10 days. I'm Keeping the poop vacuumed and adding Epson salt per the amount of water I'm taking out. Fingers crossed this round!!!

[Ava333]

Update: Things have taken a turn for the worst AGAIN! After being off medicated food two weeks or so, some of my fish took a drastic turn for the worst and almost overnight. I felt so bad for them...dark colors, wouldn't eat, tiny holes starting by the nairies. I'm confused as to how things went bad so fast. Other than turning the temp down to 76*, nothing has changed. And as fate would have it, I realized I need to reseal my 125 & 55 tanks! 😳 (I bought them both used so I knew it might come up but I've NEVER resealed an aquarium before. Oh well, time to bail off on it!)

So... I resealed the 55 gallon first, just to be safe. I saved plenty of water, kept the filter covered in water, and set it back up after 36 hours of drying, ect... Now it's stable and waiting on fish.

During this time, I didn't seem to have an adult fish that wasn't showing minimal symptoms. A call to the Vet enlightened me to the fact that different fish can be in different stages of the disease when it is caught. One of a few things could have happened: I still had a fish that was infected even though they looked better and I did 10 days of medicated food. There was too much Hex in the gravel and I wasn't cleaning enough. Dropping the temp to 76* slowed down the fish's immune system. The gravel needs to be boiled before putting it back in the tank. Temp should be kept around 80* for a month and no less than 78* after that.

With a little juggling and a lot of cleaning, I moved my fry to the 10 gallon tank and my adult fish to the stripped 20 gallon. I stopped feeding and started Clout. At 2 days, no change. Day 3, no change again! Decision time: Either keep going with the Clout or euthanize the sicker fish because the directions say no more than 2 doses and I've already given 3. So I fed frozen shelled peas and EURIKA! Really thick white poop AND thin white jelly looking poop everywhere! With extensive research I found an article that explained that this is a good thing, that there should be a LOT of it, you must be seeing the thick white poop with the white jelly poop, and to keep medicating until it stops. However, Clout was NOT the medication suggested.

I'm at day 5 (5 doses given). I'm hoping the weird poop stops today. It's breaking my heart to over medicate this much! The medicated food mentioned earlier by Richly2enjoy should be arriving today, so no more Clout will be given. I hope I don't loose anymore fish, to the disease or to over medicating (I have lost none sense starting the medication). I'll update on how the fish are doing soon.