Keepin' the fishies warm

[Mission Man]

HELP !!!  I have my fish tanks in my 1/2 basement.  Currently have about 50 tanks (ranging from 2.5g to 100g) and am using individual submersible heaters in each one.  I want to keep adding tanks and want to know how can I heat my tanks the most economic way and get away from solely funding most of DTE's retirements.

[jcunningham0295]

I am with you.   Do you have a natural gas source?  I am looking into ventless gas heaters for my basement.

[Mission Man]

I am with you.   Do you have a natural gas source?  I am looking into ventless gas heaters for my basement.

I do have natural gas.  Aren't ventless gas heater the ones that you mount on the walls that don't have a blower?  If so, do you just use a fan or two to circulate the warm air?

[Ron]

If you haven't already money spent on insulation would probably be a wise investment.

An air exchanger would also be a good idea at some point to help vent humidity build-up while helping to retain heat. I haven't done the math to figure out at which point it makes more since over investing in a cheaper dehumidifier, but since you're going bigger and bigger, it's probably not a bad idea to research it a bit.

[Mission Man]

If you haven't already money spent on insulation would probably be a wise investment.

An air exchanger would also be a good idea at some point to help vent humidity build-up while helping to retain heat. I haven't done the math to figure out at which point it makes more since over investing in a cheaper dehumidifier, but since you're going bigger and bigger, it's probably not a bad idea to research it a bit.

Man, I'm finding out in this hobby, it's hard NOT to go bigger and bigger.  I'm definitely going to use rigid insulation on the outside walls and probably start with a dehumidifier (depending on energy used).  But you're right research is the way to go, and I figured I would start here.  I'm sure there are good ideas on this site. 

[Mission Man]

Do you have a natural gas source?  I am looking into ventless gas heaters for my basement.

I do have natural gas.  Aren't ventless gas heater the ones that you mount on the walls that don't have a blower?  If so, do you just use a fan or two to circulate the warm air?

After looking more into the ventless gas heaters, I says that they are 99.9% efficient, but being ventless, I'm using the air in the basement for all the fishies.  It would seem that they would get carbon monoxide poisoning.?

[jcunningham0295]

This is one thing I wish I would have done, was slowed down and take the time to truly frame and insulate my basement.  This will be a project for next year for sure.  I am currently running two dehumidifires since my room is around 1,100 sq ft.  But once it is insulated then figure out heat source and then maybe better more auto water changing system.

[jamarini]

I've used a ventless gas heater in my fishroom (approx. 30'x30'x10') for five or six years.  Gas bills are up FAR less than then electricity costs have gone down.  Paid for the ventless heater + installation after year 2.  I was also concerned about carbon monoxide accumulation in the room but have used a carbon monoxide detector the entire time and have not had it go off ever.  I use a fan to move the air around the room as stratification can occur and certainly I do get a layered thermocline from top to bottom but overall this approach has been less costly and easier to work with and my fish have spawned more regularly since I began using the ventless heater.  I have insulated the ceiling (for both heat and sound transfer) but not the walls.  I would recommend insulating the walls if I were to do it again, however.  Buy a CO monitor and use it if you're at all concerned about build up of carbon monoxide.

[Mission Man]

I've used a ventless gas heater in my fishroom (approx. 30'x30'x10') for five or six years.  Gas bills are up FAR less than then electricity costs have gone down.  Paid for the ventless heater + installation after year 2.  I was also concerned about carbon monoxide accumulation in the room but have used a carbon monoxide detector the entire time and have not had it go off ever.  I use a fan to move the air around the room as stratification can occur and certainly I do get a layered thermocline from top to bottom but overall this approach has been less costly and easier to work with and my fish have spawned more regularly since I began using the ventless heater.  I have insulated the ceiling (for both heat and sound transfer) but not the walls.  I would recommend insulating the walls if I were to do it again, however.  Buy a CO monitor and use it if you're at all concerned about build up of carbon monoxide.

Appreciate the feedback !!!  Couple of questions:  1)  what is the BTU rating of the heater?  2) if I can ask, what was the cost of heater and install.  I will definitely be insulating the walls before heating.

[Mission Man]

Keep the feedback coming!  I'm already realizing how nice it will be to have a few electrical outlets open.  Plus I am always scared when I lose power.  With a ventless gas heater (which operates during power outages) I will only have to worry about air pump going and maybe a fan.

[Ron]

Man, I'm finding out in this hobby, it's hard NOT to go bigger and bigger.

Things definitely snowball once you get to the point of adding some kind of central filtration like an air-powered system. Adding more filters is as simple as upgrading the airflow and it's not 1-2 additional tanks, but 20-40 drops with each larger model.

Then you look around, see that it might be better with a central heater. Then you're at a point where there's not much cost to add more tanks.

Next you've just got to figure out a system to make water changes simple, suddenly you have even more time and can build another room. 

Have fun and enjoy it. 

[Mission Man]

Man, I'm finding out in this hobby, it's hard NOT to go bigger and bigger.

Things definitely snowball once you get to the point of adding some kind of central filtration like an air-powered system. Adding more filters is as simple as upgrading the airflow and it's not 1-2 additional tanks, but 20-40 drops with each larger model.

Then you look around, see that it might be better with a central heater. Then you're at a point where there's not much cost to add more tanks.

Next you've just got to figure out a system to make water changes simple, suddenly you have even more time and can build another room. 

Have fun and enjoy it. 

Man, you really hit the nail on the head!!  That's why I love being a part of the MCA. So much grey matter to glean ideas from.

[jamarini]

Sorry, I don't recall the size of my ventless heater (in terms of BTU output) but the good folks working in the department at Menards, Lowes or Home Depot can help you with the sizing.  I also did some research online to get in the ballpark with my fishroom.  I chose a unit that was a size larger than recommended just to ensure the unit would not have to work overly hard to do the intended job.

I don't recall the exact price of my unit but I believe it was in the range of $200 plus another $275 for professional installation off the gas line feeding my house water heater.  It didn't take the tech more than an hour to install it.  I strongly recommend using a carbon monoxide sensor in the fish room.

I would endorse the other comments regarding the value of insulating the ceiling AND the walls, especially outside walls.  Some hobbyists even build a raised floor and insulate that with styrofoam boards in between the floor joists to really insulate the room.  I've not done the numbers but I am not confident that would save much more energy AND if there's a big tank leak, I'd expect there to be mold problems following, so I'd not recommend insulating the slab floor. 

A central filtration system does make things considerably easier as well.  I installed one even before going to the ventless heater.  Mine is air-driven and almost universally sponge filters with PVC manifold running throughout the fishroom.  I wish in retrospect that I had also installed an automatic water changer for the entire room.  If you decide you might want to do that, I'd strongy suggest installing it before setting up all your tanks.  Once everything is in place, it's much more difficult to do physically and often requires knocking things down to do the install. 

Hope this helps.

[Mission Man]

I appreciate all the input (hope it continues).  The ventless seems to be the way I'm going (seems to be the most efficient (99.9%) and I like the fact that if there is a power outage, it will keep going) and paired with the central air system and sponge filtration, seems to be the best and easiest bang for the buck.  But what I'm hearing first and foremost is INSULATE and plan ahead which for me is half the fun.

[Mission Man]

Okay, so I just purchased and installed a "Mr. Heater" 30,000btu ventless gas heater.  I have a fan on low to distribute the heat.  I've had it going now for 24 hours, keeping the individual aquarium heaters in operation as a safety net, until I get the temperature stable.  Well, checked this morning and all the aquariums (top & bottom) are showing 79 degrees.  (Except one fry tank on the bottom that the temp. was off the chart and all the fry were dead, due to a heater that stuck on).  So, after composing myself, my wife and I decided that it was time to remove all those &%@! energy suckin' heaters and rely on the ventless heater.  Looking forward to my energy bill going down drastically.