Snails

[Steve]

Luckily not in my cichlid tanks, but in my beta tank I just noticed about 10-12 small snails. I know where they came from, from some java moss I bought about a month ago Never had snail issues before so wondering what impact if any they will have on the tank? And if they are not good for the tank then what's the best way to get rid of them?

[linuxrulesusa]

If they are the small oval shaped ones they are pond snails and will rapidly multiple.  Not an end of the world but an annoyance.  Sometimes they eat plants as well, though they prefer decaying plant matter or leftover fish food/waste first. 

If they are spiral shaped like a ram's horn, then they're ramshorn snails and will need at least two to reproduce.  They do not multiply as rapidly.  If you kill or get rid of all you see right now you may not have any more.

If they are long and spiral cone shaped they're probably Malaysian trumpet snails.  They are next to impossible to eradicate without emptying the tank and scrubbing it completely.  If you don't overfeed, they will control their own population and mostly stay in the substrate.

Feel free to bring any or all of the above to the MCA meeting Friday and I'll take them off your hands for my puffers. 

[Steve]

I looked at them again, I think from what you said they may be pond snails? Here's a pic maybe you can tell.
.
.

[linuxrulesusa]

I looked at them again, I think from what you said they may be pond snails? Here's a pic maybe you can tell.
.
.

Yep, I'm pretty sure those are pond snails.  I'd set up a snail trap (bait a glass jar or weighted down plastic container with some lettuce or something), put it in at night, and take it out first thing int he morning.  I'm serious about taking them off your hands if you're coming Friday to the meeting.   

Unfortunately they are hard to get rid of because if you have even just one they can reproduce IIRC, but if you keep the population down and don't overfeed it will help.  They won't hurt your fish.  They probably won't hurt your plants (if you have plants in that tank), but might if they get hungry.

If you can find or borrow a small skunk loach (pet supplies plus sometimes has them for $5 or less, or other places too) they will clean up the snails in a hurry.  Once there's no snails for a week or two, you can move the skunk loach.  The skunk may nip at your betta, but chances are he will just hide in the sand or under a rock most of the time when not killing snails.

[Steve]

I plan on coming to some meetings soon, but this weekend I'll be dropping a tank and replacing a fuel pump on my sisters truck for her Will clown loaches eat them as well? because I have a trio of 4" clowns in my mbuna tank which I could swap over for a day or two perhaps.

[linuxrulesusa]

I plan on coming to some meetings soon, but this weekend I'll be dropping a tank and replacing a fuel pump on my sisters truck for her Will clown loaches eat them as well? because I have a trio of 4" clowns in my mbuna tank which I could swap over for a day or two perhaps.

One clown would probably take care of them.  That should work well.  I wouldn't leave it in a small tank too long though.

[Steve]

Okay thanks for the help I'll probably swap one over for a short time and see if he can clean them up.

[African cichlid Keeper]

Just pm big dog he has assassin  snail for sale that will take care of them

[Steve]

Actually I just got back from the LFS with two new 2.5"- 2.75" clowns. Figure I will put them in there for a bit to kill off all the snails and then once they grow a bit more move them to the 55g, then finally once too big for that they'll go with the other 3 I have which will end up in the 265g.

Always a reason to buy more fish right?

[Ron]

FWIW, a simply solution for getting rid of invertebrates is adding copper.

Clowns are definitely nicer to look at though than old pennies sitting on the bottom of the tank. 

[linuxrulesusa]

FWIW, a simply solution for getting rid of invertebrates is adding copper.

Clowns are definitely nicer to look at though than old pennies sitting on the bottom of the tank. 

Do you find the copper from the pennies leaches into the silicone or just into the water?  I know copper-based meds can get absorbed into the seals and then you can't keep inverts in the tank down the line.

[Steve]

FWIW, a simply solution for getting rid of invertebrates is adding copper.

Clowns are definitely nicer to look at though than old pennies sitting on the bottom of the tank. 

Very interesting I've never heard that before. How does the copper affect the snails? doesn't harm the fish though?

[Ron]

FWIW, a simply solution for getting rid of invertebrates is adding copper.

Clowns are definitely nicer to look at though than old pennies sitting on the bottom of the tank. 

Do you find the copper from the pennies leaches into the silicone or just into the water?  I know copper-based meds can get absorbed into the seals and then you can't keep inverts in the tank down the line.

I don't really have any evidence to say one way or another. I've used both old pennies (new ones won't work well  ) and copper medications, but I've never purposely kept invertebrates. The best I can say is that there was no discoloration in the seals after using it like I've found with some other medications (malachite green for example stains a lot).

FWIW, a simply solution for getting rid of invertebrates is adding copper.

Clowns are definitely nicer to look at though than old pennies sitting on the bottom of the tank. 

Very interesting I've never heard that before. How does the copper affect the snails? doesn't harm the fish though?

I've not found a good answer to this question myself. Every just says "it's toxic!". I did find one allusion to copper being involved in their circular system and a comparison suggesting "too much copper for snails" is similar to how "too much iron is bad for people". Fish and other vertebrates can fall victim to copper poisoning, but due to body mass it takes far more to kill a fish than it does any snails.

One thing to be careful of killing all the snails at once is an ammonia spike when they all suddenly die together. If the tank starts to get cloudy at all a water change is necessary ASAP!

Another thing to be careful of is that some plants are sensitive to copper. Vals are the first that come to mind. Some are tolerant though, of which anubias come to mind.

A final consideration is that copper might kill some good bacteria in your filter. Unless you tank is overstock and not necessarily overfiltered, it's not a huge risk IMO.

For more information than I'm willing to type, this seemed to be a good reference:
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/snail/coppersnail.php
The only part I didn't entirely agree with was the suggestion that activated carbon could be used to help remove the copper after treatment. Activated carbon binds with organics, not elements.