Mouth Brooders - To separate or not?

[four_by_ken]

I know some fish are fine with just letting nature take its course and you never have to separate the fry from the adults.

From what I know... usually only tanks with one species, and of course very mild ones.

Thinking of trying this with the Letrinops Albus.  Anyone have any experience?

[djlamonica]

If you want to maximize fry survival definatly seperate the fry from the group.  Now with my limited exp. With my mbuna that just started to spawn,  I found that if I pulled the female when I noticed she was holding and let her spit naturally 20 some days later they were not exceptexd back into the group very quickly and were harrassed when they first arrived.  This next time I'm going to leave the female in the group for 20 or so days then pull her and let her spit naturally in a holding 10g then remove the female from the fry a day later and hopfully with the limited timee she spent apart from the group shell be accepted easier.

 I don't strip as it seems to be very stressful for the female and because I'm not very quick about it.  Again I think if you want to maximize the fry and how quickly the fish breed again you pull the fish when there ready to be stripped.  Strip the fry into a tank and then place the female back into the group

Good luck!

[four_by_ken]

Thats the plan... but what about just leaving fry and the female in the tank... dont take her our the fry out at all?

[djlamonica]

They will not protect and raise the fry like some fish if that is the question,  most will get eaten some may survie if you have heavy rock work tons of cover they can hid in.

I'm not an expert by any means and don't have experience with that particular species so please correct me if I am wrong.  If you'd. Like to see the whole ordeal.  Pairing, mating, hatching and raising of the fry try some new worlds.

[jcunningham0295]

I strip all my females as I don't have a lot of free tanks, but then put the female back in the tank in a net mesh for about a week before releasing into the group.  She still gets harrased, but not as bad.  Most of the time I have left the female with the fry it is usually not more than two days if I let her spit naturally.

[Super Turtleman]

Stripping and putting females back has always worked for me.

However, if you want to let nature take it's course and try to get a few survivors along the way, I used to build "fry piles" in my tanks. I'd get a bunch of small polished river rocks and build piles in a couple corners of the tanks. The fry would somehow end up finding their way in there and it gave them a decent shot at survival. My kids would love spotting babies in the fry piles and following them to see if they made it to adulthood. Not as good as stripping but I usually had 3-5 fry growing in there at any given time. At first they'd dart out quickly to get a quick bite but they'd get braver as they got bigger. And they learn those piles quickly. Here are a couple pics of fry piles...

[four_by_ken]

I think we might try this rock pile attempt.  Just need to put something together real soon to be ready.

We were also thinking about a clay pot (or similar) and drilling holes in it just small enough so that the adults can not get in it.

[Super Turtleman]

We were also thinking about a clay pot (or similar) and drilling holes in it just small enough so that the adults can not get in it.

That would work.

[Ron]

I think we might try this rock pile attempt.  Just need to put something together real soon to be ready.

We were also thinking about a clay pot (or similar) and drilling holes in it just small enough so that the adults can not get in it.

The difference between those two is that with the rock pile, the fry can find their own space away from others, while in the flower pot you'll probably find some aggression between them as they grow, so certain members would get kicked out of that hiding location by their peer(s). The exact scenario depends on species. For example, my L. caeruleus will hang out together for some time and aren't feisty until they reach 1.5-2". My Ps. demasoni on the other hand get pushy with each other around 3/4", if not slightly sooner.

[four_by_ken]

Good point.  The Albus are very mild fish from what I can tell.  I see no signs at all of them fighting for position.  I can only tell the dominate male by the brighter colors.

My wife went looking for pots and didnt find much that she wanted.  But, she did find something.  I dont really know what they are.  They are made of sinking clear plastic.  Smaller than a Kleenex box, but bigger than a box of cards.  They are stackable.  They already have holes all through them on the sides.  Open tops.

When stacked, they are like little fry apartments.  We have three of them, but I may get more.

I think I am going to use these and then pile some slate around them so the fry will feel more secure.

We'll see what happens!

[mightieskeeper]

Emil the fry rock piles is a way cool idea.  It looks natural and does a good job.  I bet if you added 1/2 pvc pipe you could add more hiding places to your pile of rocks.

[four_by_ken]

So, I picked up a bunch of slate like rock a lunch to pile around the little "safe houses".

I'll take some pictures.