Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore

[four_by_ken]

Salt, salt, salt, salt. Check that salinity. Get a hydrometer, or take a sample back to the LFS, and have them test for salinity. I bet it is way too high.

If you can somehow get water from before your water softener, I would use that water, and start doing water changes now.

Also, check your softener unit and see if it has a bypass, or call culligan, and tell them that you need a bypass put on, for your FRESHWATER aquarium.

Reading this thread from the beginning, I am almost positive that this could be the root problem.

Its water change night tonight anyways... so, I will be doing a water change on everything.

I'll stop on the way home and get a test for salinity.  I do add more than I was expecting to get the hardness reading up higher.

I was looking at tubs and tanks that I can fill with prior to the softner water.... then I would still have to heat that to get it into the tank.  My basement is very cold.  But I recently found small electric on demand water heaters.  Some you can set the temperature of the water.  They are a little over $200.  After I add tubs and heaters for the tubs... price would reach over $100 for sure... getting closer to the $200 mark.

Thinking more like that is where I want to go.

[four_by_ken]

If your water heater has been running from the softened water and you have a by-pass.  How do you get the pre-softened water into the water heater prior to doing a water change ?

If I bypassed the softener... I would have to empty the hot water tank, let it refill with non-softened water... heat up... then I could use it.  Pain in the ass.

I may do the separate on demand little water heater.  Liking that idea more.


Thanks for the offer on the rocks.  I have some at home I could use.  I just thought the other benefit of the holy rock , other than the holes and looks was the buffering it does.

[NorthernAquatic]

For the time being, until you can work out a permanent warm water storage solution, just use a big garbage can, put it right next to the tanks, fill it with water, drop in a heater, and maybe a little water pump for circulation. Once it warms up, just pump it right from the garbage can, to the tanks. When done, put the can in the garage or basement until the next water change.

[Maize-N-Blue-D]

Ken, This was posted by Ron when I was having issues with my tank...

Quote from: danielratti on February 03, 2013, 11:12:12 AM
Dont add any fancy crap unless you really feel that you have to.
I kind of wanted to QFT, but that last half I don't agree with. For rift species, never use chemicals to screw with the pH.

If you really feel you need to adjust the pH higher, use a passive means like crushed limestone or some other high pH rock for substrate, decor, or in the filter (doubling also as biomedia like this FWIW). More often than not if I hear of someone using chemicals to adjust pH, it's because they're watching fish die in the process.

With regards to the fish breathing heavy, if their gills were exceptionally red, it could have been ammonia poisoning, as ammonia toxicity increased relative to an increase in pH (and temperature FWIW). To save on time spent typing, here's a couple of references:
http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html
http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html

[linuxrulesusa]

I dont really understand taking the drift wood out. 

The only thing I have read that is a drift wood issue is that it lowers ph.  But, my tests fine.  And I am also having this issue with the 180 gallon that has no drift wood in it.

I don't think driftwood necessary lowers PH, but rather the GH or KH aspect of hardness/softness of your water.  See this for example: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gh_kh_ph.php  (a bit long, but a good start to understanding some of the differences).  There's better ones that I've seen but I can't find those explanations right now.

FWIW.

[four_by_ken]

For the time being, until you can work out a permanent warm water storage solution, just use a big garbage can, put it right next to the tanks, fill it with water, drop in a heater, and maybe a little water pump for circulation. Once it warms up, just pump it right from the garbage can, to the tanks. When done, put the can in the garage or basement until the next water change.

My well water comes out at like 50 degrees.  It would take a couple days of having a heater in there to get it warm.  Which means I would almost be to the point of adding another 100 gallons of water that I need to heat all the time.  Thats why I think the on demand would be a good solution in the long run... even for costs.

Doing the garbage cans...  I would need $60 in heaters and have them run constant.  Thats $60-$80 closer to the on demand heater.

Ugh...

[four_by_ken]

Ken, This was posted by Ron when I was having issues with my tank...

Quote from: danielratti on February 03, 2013, 11:12:12 AM
Dont add any fancy crap unless you really feel that you have to.
I kind of wanted to QFT, but that last half I don't agree with. For rift species, never use chemicals to screw with the pH.

If you really feel you need to adjust the pH higher, use a passive means like crushed limestone or some other high pH rock for substrate, decor, or in the filter (doubling also as biomedia like this FWIW). More often than not if I hear of someone using chemicals to adjust pH, it's because they're watching fish die in the process.

With regards to the fish breathing heavy, if their gills were exceptionally red, it could have been ammonia poisoning, as ammonia toxicity increased relative to an increase in pH (and temperature FWIW). To save on time spent typing, here's a couple of references:
http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html
http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/ammonia-toxicity.html

I HATE adding anything to my tanks.  The only reason I am adding is for the hardness because I was told that my water was so soft it would cause issues.  Now I think what I am adding may be solving one problem, but now causing another one.

I have not added anything specifically for ph.

[four_by_ken]

I dont really understand taking the drift wood out. 

The only thing I have read that is a drift wood issue is that it lowers ph.  But, my tests fine.  And I am also having this issue with the 180 gallon that has no drift wood in it.

I don't think driftwood necessary lowers PH, but rather the GH or KH aspect of hardness/softness of your water.  See this for example: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gh_kh_ph.php  (a bit long, but a good start to understanding some of the differences).  There's better ones that I've seen but I can't find those explanations right now.

FWIW.

But my hardness levels dont seem to drop any.

[NorthernAquatic]

My well water comes out at like 50 degrees.  It would take a couple days of having a heater in there to get it warm.  Which means I would almost be to the point of adding another 100 gallons of water that I need to heat all the time.  Thats why I think the on demand would be a good solution in the long run... even for costs.

Doing the garbage cans...  I would need $60 in heaters and have them run constant.  Thats $60-$80 closer to the on demand heater.

Ugh...

Ugh... is right. LOL

But, filling the trash can a few days beforehand, the ambient temp in the house should help quite a bit. And a SMALL temp drop in the tanks should not be a prob for the in tanks water heater to bump it back up. Plus, Like I said, this is just temp until something else can be worked out. This suggestion is just to address the immediate, assumed, high salinity issue.

The on demand water heater is a good idea, but be prepared to replace it on a regular basis. The hard water is going to be rough on it. It would be nice if there was a small on demand water heater, with removable elements, that way they could be cleaned, and extend their life by quite a bit.

I have been down this road before. Indirect water heating was the only way to go in my case, and it's been working great ever since, with zero problems.

[linuxrulesusa]

I dont really understand taking the drift wood out. 

The only thing I have read that is a drift wood issue is that it lowers ph.  But, my tests fine.  And I am also having this issue with the 180 gallon that has no drift wood in it.

I don't think driftwood necessary lowers PH, but rather the GH or KH aspect of hardness/softness of your water.  See this for example: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gh_kh_ph.php  (a bit long, but a good start to understanding some of the differences).  There's better ones that I've seen but I can't find those explanations right now.

FWIW.

But my hardness levels dont seem to drop any.

Then you probably don't have enough driftwood in there to make a noticeable difference, so I would look into some of the other possible causes. 

[four_by_ken]

Well, I stopped last night on the way home to get a hydrometer.  All they had was meant for saltwater tanks, as I was expecting.  So, it wouldnt read low enough for what I need.

It it were to register on there tester... all my fish would already be dead or much worse looking.

So, I was supposed to bring a water sample to them, as they have a nice fancy digital reader that will work for brackish water tanks also.  But...  I forgot the water when I left this morning.

Dammit.

[Maize-N-Blue-D]

Ken,

This is something that you were supposed to keep to yourself !  Doooo !

Cardinal Rule # 1:
Never ever admit you made a mistake !   "it wasn't me, but sir we have you on tape ! IT WASN'T ME !  You must be mistaken...

[four_by_ken]

Found the shut off for the water softener.  It is built into the sofetner itself.  I was looking for a ball valve or something before.

[four_by_ken]

So, lost another one.




Saturday I did water changes... added nothing to the water and was running water bypassing the softener.

Prior to the water change, pH was at the higher end of the range... maybe a tad too high.  Water hardness (KH and GH) were also at the top end of the acceptable scale as that is what I understood was preferred.

So, I think maybe the adding of "stuff" to get it to those levels was hurting more than helping.

Sunday I tested again and pH fell a little bit, I think another water change it will be just right.  GH fell quite a bit, but at the lower end of the acceptable levels.  KH actually went up!  Strange.

All 5 tanks all did the same thing.  So, I that makes me feel good.  Makes it easier to adjust, etc.

I also tested the water again after having the softener in bypass for a few days now.  GH a little low, KH about perfect and was low.  So, I think I might be able to get by with minimal additives if I bypass the softener.

I think tomorrow I will do water changes again.

[Michael Zebrowski]

Moderate the feeding for a while during the new water change program, and you should be fine moving forward.  Good luck.