Author Topic: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore  (Read 13548 times)

Offline Maize-N-Blue-D

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 878
  • 48096
    • 48096 Romeo
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2013, 01:45:27 PM »
http://greatlakesaquaria.com/index.php?/topic/4740-change-out-your-substrate/

Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:11 PM

I wanted to share a short story, and let everyone know how important aquarium substrate is in our hobby. If I only get one reader to change out their substrate, and it saves some fish in the long run it will be worth it.

For about the first five years or so, I battled with water chemistry, ammonia spikes, and unstable pH in the aquarium.

I started my first freshwater tank at 9 years old, and of course I went with the awesome cool looking blue gravel. LOL! Unfortunately when people decide to get into the aquarium hobby, they always make this first terrible mistake. Now, 24 years later I'm still keeping aquarium fish and I have learned a little bit along the way.

The colored aquarium gravel serves absolutely no purpose in your aquarium but looking cool and colored. In my opinion they need to stop selling it. Even the natural looking gravel has absolutely no buffering capability for your aquarium!

You spend quite a bit of money on all of your aquarium equipment, then you spend even more money on fish and aquatic life once it's set up and cycled. Why not spend a few extra bucks and buy substrate that buffers the tank?

Aragonite is the secret substrate that buffers both freshwater and saltwater aquariums! Wait a minute, it's not a secret, they sell it everywhere!

The more Aragonite you have in your aquarium, the higher your pH will be. It buffers the tank, maintains a higher pH, holds beneficial bacteria, and maintains stable water chemistry, granted you keep up on your routine 20-30% water changes.
Rarely do I ever have to add any sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) to the aquarium to raise the pH.

I use a mix of Aragonite and Cichlid eco-complete for my desired look.

No problems switching to saltwater either, I have taken a freshwater tank over to a marine tank in a days time,vacuumed out with the python, dumped in my marine salt, two hours later I put in some damsels to cycle the marine tank. The bacteria changes and the Aragonite continues to buffer the aquarium water. Three days later I was adding marine fish and never lost one of them. Of course a skimmer is required about a month later but that's another story.

There is nothing worse than hearing a person whine about their water quality and how they are constantly losing their fish, only to see they have that 7 dollar blue colored gravel from petsmart in their tank.

There are thousands of people who have left the hobby, simply because they were not educated from the beginning and couldn't keep their fish alive. Let's keep people educated, keep people in the hobby, and keep aquatic life alive!

So I'm begging you, please get rid of that hot pink or blue gravel and switch to a form of Aragonite. You will have a buffered tank that is extremely stable, and you can buy me a beer some time for telling you so!

Thanks for reading!

"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - GENERAL GEORGE S. PATTON, JR.

Offline four_by_ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2138
    • 48002
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2013, 01:48:06 PM »
That should have been a new topic...

I have typical gravel in both tanks.  My pH is fine in both tanks.  I am adding the buffer to keep KH levels up where they need to be.

One tank is drift wood (the sinking kind) and the other is holy rock,
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 02:27:43 PM by four_by_ken »

Offline djlamonica

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 624
    • Plymouth
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2013, 06:52:50 PM »
Some times fish just die, maybe your just unlucky this month.

Offline four_by_ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2138
    • 48002
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2013, 06:58:04 AM »
Some times fish just die, maybe your just unlucky this month.


And this is why I dont go to the casino.

Offline Mastiffman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 473
  • http://TropheusAndMore.com
    • Livonia, MI.
    • My YOUTUBE Channel
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2013, 03:03:54 PM »
dkock62 is on the right track. But with a few misconceptions...

 I use CaribSea's Reef Grade Aragonite Sand for all my Aquariums...

 The Aragonite has some major key trace elements in it. Calcium, Carbonate buffer, Strontium, Magnesium, Molybdenum and Potassium...

 The Max pH that this stuff will yeild is actually 8.2 which technically, is not as important as the Gh (General Hardness) and Kh (Carbonate Hardness)of the water. More so of Kh. The Kh is actually the buffering capacity of the Water... It's the amount of Carbonates and Bi-carbonates in the water that will maintain proper pH Levels in times of changing acidity (i.e ammonia and nitrate increase). The Gh actually affects the Fishes Colors more so. The reasont hat pH is second to Mainly Kh is because, although Africans being sensitive to changes in pH, the Serverity of the affects of change in pH rise Dramatically if Ammonia levels are higher. So if the water has poor puffering Capapbilities, any change in pH caused from a raise in ammonia levels will that much more lethal to the fish.

 I use Aragonite for this purpose. I use API's Aquarium salts as these do a few different things. Salts will aid in  slime reproduction which is important during times of stress. It helps aid is parasite and disease prevention. It also aids in proper Gill membrane function!

 I also use Epsom salts. Standard stuff, nothing special. it aids in maintaining proper Gh and Kh along with the aragonite but also yeilds better digestive function as it's a natrual laxity (so are peas for fish) and aids in maintianing proper water blalance in the Fishes Cells. Bloat can also be casued from this as well. Not just digestive constipation...

 Rasing temps can help with Digestive issues being that higher temps yeilds a faster motabolism in Poikilothermic Eukaryotes (e.g. FISH) But higher temps enduce lower levels of Oxygen so higher Water Surfice turbulence is needed to maintain adiquit O2 levels. Especially considering higher metabolism rates.

 And Remember that Any fish that has been subjected to harsh evironments (i.e high levels of acidity [aka: Ammonia levels]), even if once and severe enough, will burn the gill membranes and once recovered will create scare tissue over the Blood Vessels that transfer O2 into their bloodtream. This will subject them to being Even MORE Sensistive to changes in their environment and increasing their chances of dying in any event that a situation like this arrises in the future..

 This is why purcashing fish from a breeder who regularly maintains their tanks and cares for them with passion is so important to the hobby.

 If poeple buy fish and have a bad experience based on fish that they purcashed from someone that does take very good care of their fish, this leaves a sour opinion of aquatic life keeping...

 This is all stuff that will help each individual keeping fish, understand the importance of aquatic processes and keep happier, healthier Fish in the Hobby!

 JMTC...
here's a Good link for you guys to read if you get board...


http://www.malawimayhem.com/articles_chemistry_water_chemistry.shtml


 Hope this helps!

Offline four_by_ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2138
    • 48002
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2013, 06:53:34 AM »
This is getting rediculous.

Little Ahli in the 85 gallon.  Dead.
Mloto in the 140 now not eating.
Large Strawberry in the 85 gallon now not eating.

Woke up to two dead baby ruby greens, with another on the way out.  Have not had a single issue with this tank since we set it up for the ruby green fry 3 months ago.

I am getting ready to say to hell with it.

What the %^&* is going on.

Tested ph again... about 8.2

Its water change night again, so I think I will just add nothing but water.

Really getting ready to quit.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 07:29:34 AM by Ron »

Offline Stan M.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 533
    • Belleville mich.
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2013, 07:25:46 AM »
Take water sample to your lfs

Offline four_by_ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2138
    • 48002
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2013, 07:31:40 AM »
Take water sample to your lfs

I have taken a sample a couple times to Preuss.  First time... everything was perfect, except for hardness. 

I have got that under control now.

I am at my wits ends with this.

Offline Stan M.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 533
    • Belleville mich.
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2013, 07:42:17 AM »
I see your adding something to your water changes.What are you adding?

Offline four_by_ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2138
    • 48002
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2013, 07:55:43 AM »
I see your adding something to your water changes.What are you adding?

Seachem Cichlid Salt and Buffer for adjusting the water hardness.  I test the hardness with an API KH and GH test kit.  After adding... the tests are at the upper range of the hardness scale, where I was told is what they should be.

Offline NorthernAquatic

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
    • Oscoda
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2013, 08:02:51 AM »
In addition to the cichlid salts, are you still supplying water that's been through the water softener? If so, what are the salinity levels in your tanks?

The only other thing I can think of, is that there may have been some disease or parasite introduced your systems.
I once caught a fish this big,  ><((((º>   Shown Actual Size

Offline four_by_ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2138
    • 48002
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2013, 08:10:28 AM »
I have treated for parasites before and didnt seem to do anything at all.  Plus, I had two fish cut and gutted at Preuss... looked under a microscope and nothing was found.

The water is after the softner.  Salinity is about the only thing I didnt test.


Offline Stan M.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 533
    • Belleville mich.
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2013, 09:01:55 AM »
Iam not a fan about using buffers.But this what i would do.Take your buffer get in your sweet ass chevy pickup.Drive to nearest lake,and throw as far as you can.Get back in your sweet ass chevy drive to your lfs.Buy some crush coral and some holy rock.Add to your tank lol

Offline jcunningham0295

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2437
    • Newport, MI (48166)
    • Cunningham Cichlids
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2013, 09:05:38 AM »
Are you sure the ones not eating are not getting bullied by other fish?  I have had this happen in a few of my mixed species tanks before.
Josh Cunningham
Cunningham Cichlids, LLC.
Over 5,290 gallons of quality African Cichlids

Cunningham Cichlids
Facebook
Youtube

Offline four_by_ken

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2138
    • 48002
Re: Please help with sick fish - can't take this anymore
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2013, 09:23:54 AM »
Iam not a fan about using buffers.But this what i would do.Take your buffer get in your sweet ass chevy pickup.Drive to nearest lake,and throw as far as you can.Get back in your sweet ass chevy drive to your lfs. Buy some crush coral and some holy rock.Add to your tank lol

Just about ready to do this.  This would be last attempt and if it didnt work... I dont know.  But, I do have a lot of Holy Rock in the 140 gallon.  But the majority of the problems are in the 85 gallon that has the drift wood in it.

Are you sure the ones not eating are not getting bullied by other fish?  I have had this happen in a few of my mixed species tanks before.

I dont see anything excessive.  But, that doens mean it isnt happening.