Michigan Cichlid Association
General Category => DIY => Topic started by: Ron on July 19, 2014, 09:03:16 AM
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(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/t1.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/t2.jpg)
*That's condensation on the tank. It is actually clear acrylic. ;)
I've been thinking about scaling back on how many tanks I'm maintaining and taking a quality over quantity approach. It'll be a while until I'm at a point where it's running, but I'm looking forward to the journey of getting there. :)
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Nice!! :) You will have to post pics as you move along.
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What the hell!? I didn't know you were getting a new pool! Did you purchase scuba gear so you can clean the glass? That's freaking awesome. Do you know how many guppies you can fit in there? Ok, ok, I'm only poking fun cuz I'm majorly jealous.
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Is that a 30 long or a 40 breeder ? ::)
Feel like I'm watching an episode of Fish Tank Kings.
Nice tank !!!! Keep the updates coming for us "less fortunate". :'(
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Nice!! :) You will have to post pics as you move along.
That's the plan. ;)
Do you know how many guppies you can fit in there? Ok, ok, I'm only poking fun cuz I'm majorly jealous.
Ironically I have 30 gallons worth of guppies right now. :P
Is that a 30 long or a 40 breeder ? ::)
Feel like I'm watching an episode of Fish Tank Kings.
Nice tank !!!! Keep the updates coming for us "less fortunate". :'(
Thanks! It's about 16 40 breeders (less the overflow volume) all in one tank. ;D
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Nice! Good for you!
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Wow! That's quite the tank!! What are you thinking of putting in there?
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600 gallons huh... Good for you man hopefully the fish shed you built can support this
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Nice! Good for you!
Thanks. I've been thinking about being able to do something like this for years and am happy I finally could execute it. I'll be picking your brain at the picnic tomorrow; I'd like to do something similar to what you did with your in-wall tank.
Wow! That's quite the tank!! What are you thinking of putting in there?
I've tried many styles of tanks over the years and I still love malawian haps the most. It'll be hap tank (maybe a few non-haps too like clown loaches or peacocks). I've already come to accept whatever I put in it, I'll not be able to get back out without draining the tank way, way down.
600 gallons huh... Good for you man hopefully the fish shed you built can support this
I've got a walkout basement, otherwise I'd have never gone this big.
Not sure what people have pegged it at from the photos, but it's 8' long, 4' wide, and 29" high. Add in the euro-bracing around the top and without draining the tank to net fish, the only way to get them out would be "fishing" for them. The volume is roughly 550 gallons, less the overflow which is ~25 gallons roughly (I haven't done the math).
It's also got a center overflow setup, which initially I wasn't thrilled about, but like that it'll do a better job of drawing water from throughout the tank compared to rear-mounted overflows. I'll be making a DIY background to hide the overflow stack.
I'm still not sure what I'm doing with the background. A DIY background would look amazing, but doing something outside the tank that would allow me to see through the tank from the backside (maintenance side) might be nice. I've spent years researching large tank setups and am still looking for more ideas before I make a decision.
I'll be finally doing a sump for the first time, as it doesn't make sense to do anything different for a tank this size. I'm thinking it'll be in the 150 gallon range, but haven't quite figured out where I want it located (under the tank vs off to the side), but if under the tank the dimensions of the supports under the tank might limit what I can do. I'm aiming for a "leak proof" sump - no holes/seals that could ever potentially result in a flood.
The tank didn't come with much of anything besides the tank, though the PO through in a wavemaker he'd used with it (previously reef setup). While not necessary for an african tank, I'm intrigued and need to look into it more.
Has anyone done a LED lighting setup? Based on power consumption, I think that'd the route I'd like to go, despite having a copious amount of 8' long T12 lights sitting unused.
If anyone has links to other large malawian hap setups, please share. The more ideas the better.
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Look into the Taotronics led setups I've seen them got for under 100 and are equipment to ecotech radions for a lot less
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Thanks for the suggestion. I was thinking of DIY'ing the lighting, but will take a look into those as well just in case.
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Very awesome Ron. I am sure what ever you put it will look great!!! Look forward to seeing additional pics as you move through the process.
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Look forward to talking about this tomorrow. I can go over some ideas about the sump based on the sump on my 8'. It seems impossible to overflow due to not having enough water between sump and tank to allow for overflow.
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That is awesome Ron, great score!
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Nice tank Ron!
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Thanks guys.
Haven't done much in terms of progress yet - still just doing lots and lots of research on various aspects of getting it setup.
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Very nice Ron :)
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While out on my first hike since recovering from the pneumonia I found a great looking rock for your big tank Ron 8)
Please note the 1 quart canteen in the photo for size reference.
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RON!!!!! Atta Boy!! This is amazing, real happy for you. Can't wait to see some MONSTER Haps in there!!
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Wow, that is a nice rock Tony! It's also hear you're doing better and getting back out enjoying the outdoors!
Thanks Rob, I thought you'd approve. ;D
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I've got a lot going on, but am trying to find the time to work on this new (and exciting!) project.
First things first, had to clear out where the tank is going to go:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1.jpg)
Moving the 180 by myself was particularly fun.
Over the last week, I got that done:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo3.jpg)
I've also been researching/designing how I want to put together the stand. I'll be a "through the wall" setup, but I've decided to just let it abut the wall rather than be flush with the other side and I'll frame the "window" into the tank. It should be a little easier and I'll have a free standing stand instead of one that's permanently part of the wall.
The tank however needs to be ~40" tall to show above the couch on the other side of the wall. If I made a stand that tall, it'd never be removable from the house because the doors are only 35" wide. So I'm building a base stand, and then a second stand that will sit on the base to get the height I need.
I'm also over-engineering the heck out of the stand and using way more wood than I'd need if I were to calculate the minimum amount necessary based on structural load capacity tables. The general gist is 2x6 joists on 12" centers with wood-supporting wood design to limit shear on the fasteners (went with deck screws over framing nails). Both stands will have 23/32" plywood tops.
I picked up supplies today:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2.jpg)
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Excellent. Cant wait to see more progress pics...and eventually see it in person.
While building your stand I hope you're keeping your filtration set up in mind...
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I was on vacation when you posted this and I must have not read all the posts / got caught up yet because this is the first I am seeing this Ron. Wow that is awesome man that there is a tank to be proud of. It's gonna be well worth all the work and time when it is done that's for sure.
I'm still not sure what I'm doing with the background. A DIY background would look amazing, but doing something outside the tank that would allow me to see through the tank from the backside (maintenance side) might be nice. I've spent years researching large tank setups and am still looking for more ideas before I make a decision.
Something to think about as another option...do some sort of a DIY "center piece". Something like a DIY background but make it so it is actually more in the center of the tank so that the viewing area is still 100% from all side and the fish swim around the center DIY decor. Just something that popped into my head but something worth considering maybe. When you get to that stage if you decide you want to do some sort of DIY decor let me know and I'd be happy to lend a hand.
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Something to think about as another option...do some sort of a DIY "center piece". Something like a DIY background but make it so it is actually more in the center of the tank so that the viewing area is still 100% from all side and the fish swim around the center DIY decor. Just something that popped into my head but something worth considering maybe.
That is a cool idea and I already sort of have something along those lines by default. The tank pictures with condensation don't show it well, but there is a central overflow that I'll need to hide.
When you get to that stage if you decide you want to do some sort of DIY decor let me know and I'd be happy to lend a hand.
I certainly appreciate the offer. I'm a bit behind in updating the pictures in this thread however and already have a background solution laying on my basement floor. I decided against DIY because I didn't want to permanently attach the background to the tank. Since the tank is acrylic, it wouldn't be easy to remove a background if necessary. (Not that a it's easy with a glass tank, but at least you can use a razor blade.)
Instead I want to use magnets so I can easily remove it in the future if needed. I can across a rocky background made from a thin rubber material and ordered a sheet for the back of the tank and a sheet for the central overflow. This won't be as buoyant, so holding it in place with magnets should be easier. It's also flexible, so I can have 1 continuous piece as a background. (Larger acrylic tanks have eurobracing across the top, essentially a big sheet of a acrylic glued across the top and a series of cut-outs in that sheet for tank access.) I haven't ordered the magnets yet - no time to research what size I need for 3/4" acrylic that have enough, but not too much, holding power.
Currently I'm still trying to find time to work on the stand among other things. I've been trying to design something which is modular, so it can be removed from the house (if I were to ever move) and to keep the weight at a point where I might be able to manage shuffling it around myself. I'm also over-engineering the heck out of it and probably using a lot more wood than necessary, but I want it 100% FLAT in the end.
Currently a base stand is built out of PT wood. The top is built less a 3/4" top that will go on at the end. Right now my focus is the middle section that will support the top. This coming weekend, if not sooner I should have picture updates. :)
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The tank stand is finally almost done! I just have to get some coats of polyurethane on it still.
To justify spending almost 3 weeks getting it done, my aim was to make it modular. For typical tanks under a 2' width, the stands always fit through the doors. I needed the stand 40" tall and the tank is 48" wide, so I built it in sections so I can remove it from the house some day if needed.
It also occurred to me when picking out, loading, and unloading all the wood, that this was going to be darn heavy! In the end, I'm still able to handle the sections solo (with the use of simple tools). I could have used less wood, but it's easiest to just over-engineer it and not worry about the potential for mistakes calculating the minimum required structure. I kept the long-side supports far enough apart that I can fit through them, but left the ends even larger in case I want to slide a large sump under it (currently leaning towards just setting up a sump to the side of the stand though).
Lower base made of PT wood and the middle section placed upon it:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo5.jpg)
Fully assembeled stand:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo4.jpg)
An extra photo of the upper section's skeleton prior to the final plywood on top. The entire frame is wood supported by wood all the way through the base to the concrete floor - no reliance on any shear force upon the fasteners. :)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-1.jpg)
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Bout' time you updated....slacker :P
Lookin' great Ron, damn that is a hell of a stand. Could support a M1 A1 Abrams on that puppy 8) Nice work.
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Just a suggestion, but I would add more electrical outlet boxes behind it before you get too far. That way you don't have to use light bars.
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Good suggestion. I was thinking of adding two more, but suppose I need to make a list one night of everything that might possibly be plugged in some day and insure it will be enough. I believe I have access to two different circuits off the main breaker.
I've also got to move at least the far outlet box too. I have been holding off tearing into the wall until I had the stand built so I know the exact height. I hate doing drywall and am trying to avoid drywall work as must as possible by minimizing cutting to the absolute minimum required.
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Looking great, Ron! Keep the updates coming. ;)
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Have you thought of putting the outlets into the stand? You could plug the stand in....then if you do move it, you have all the outlets you need.
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Good suggestion. I was thinking of adding two more, but suppose I need to make a list one night of everything that might possibly be plugged in some day and insure it will be enough. I believe I have access to two different circuits off the main breaker.
I've also got to move at least the far outlet box too. I have been holding off tearing into the wall until I had the stand built so I know the exact height. I hate doing drywall and am trying to avoid drywall work as must as possible by minimizing cutting to the absolute minimum required.
Hey Ron,
If you need some help with the electrical I can give you some suggestions that will keep drywall repair to a minimum, if not completely unnecessary.
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Looking good. Looks like it is coming along nicely.
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Good suggestion. I was thinking of adding two more, but suppose I need to make a list one night of everything that might possibly be plugged in some day and insure it will be enough. I believe I have access to two different circuits off the main breaker.
I've also got to move at least the far outlet box too. I have been holding off tearing into the wall until I had the stand built so I know the exact height. I hate doing drywall and am trying to avoid drywall work as must as possible by minimizing cutting to the absolute minimum required.
Hey Ron,
If you need some help with the electrical I can give you some suggestions that will keep drywall repair to a minimum, if not completely unnecessary.
Advice is always welcome! I was thinking that using a rotozip to place any new outlets to keep the drywall intact. What were you thinking?
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If your not good with a rotozip they can get away from you... I've seen it before pretty scary to see afterwards. I do a lot of drywall work and all I use is a drywall knife.
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I've got one of those as well. IME using the knife makes more dust and a potentially rougher cut. I get what you're saying about the rotozip getting away - always good to make some test cuts for practice and to go slow.
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Yeah man the need to make a speed setting for a rotozip. Wouldn't you think the rotozip would cause more dust because essentially all it is is a cutting but going at a high rate of speed
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Rotozips can definitely stray very quickly if you're not used to them....and even on occasion if you use them all the time.
If you use a rotozip, make sure to hold it firmly and that the cutting bit is only the depth of the drywall so you don't hit any wires.
I use a rotozip sometimes, but a drywall saw more often (as opposed to a drywall/razor knife).
Also, is the tank on an interior wall? That will make fishing a circuit down the wall easier. If it's insulated it can still be accomplished but with a little more difficulty.
There are also special boxes to use that are cut-in boxes.
I'd be more than willing to help with the electrical Ron, just let me know and I can make arrangements to come out there.
Have you thought of putting the outlets into the stand? You could plug the stand in....then if you do move it, you have all the outlets you need.
Keep in mind that if you make the multiple outlets a modular system that is fed by using an extension cord to plug into an existing wall outlet you need to use a 14 gauge cord, not the cheaper 16, 18, or even smaller gauge cords.
It also limits the fed modular system to only a single circuit.
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Rotozips can definitely stray very quickly if you're not used to them....and even on occasion if you use them all the time.
If you use a rotozip, make sure to hold it firmly and that the cutting bit is only the depth of the drywall so you don't hit any wires.
I use a rotozip sometimes, but a drywall saw more often (as opposed to a drywall/razor knife).
I've spent quite a bit of time with a rotozip on past projects. I think the trick with any rotary cutting tool (die grinder, vertical saw, etc) is to go slow so it doesn't bite in too much and transmit a lot of torque back onto the hand(s) holding it.
Also, is the tank on an interior wall? That will make fishing a circuit down the wall easier. If it's insulated it can still be accomplished but with a little more difficulty.
It's an interior, non-supporting wall. It does have some specialized insulation to reduce sound transmission through it. I can't recall exactly how it looks though (if it includes fiberglass batting or not).
There are also special boxes to use that are cut-in boxes.
Thanks - I'll have to look those up!
I'd be more than willing to help with the electrical Ron, just let me know and I can make arrangements to come out there.
That sure is a fantastic offer. I try to do as much myself as reasonably possible, but I'll keep your gracious offer in mind. :)
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*I am expecting a tour of this tank once it's up and running. Just to let you know. :)
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I'm sure that can be arranged. :)
Not sure when though, as the project is going a bit slower than I had initially pictured. I'm hoping to at least finish polyurethaning the stand by the end of this weekend and can hopefully start on the wall at that point.
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Finally finished polyurethaning the stand this past weekend:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-5.jpg)
Lining up final placement - will start working on the wall soon!
(The dog"fish" felt some obligation tryout the stand when I was taking pictures)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-5.jpg)
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Looking good bud I'm liking it. Is the 2nd part a canopy with a feeding port? or something else? Good lookin' lab as well :)
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Looking good bud I'm liking it. Is the 2nd part a canopy with a feeding port? or something else? Good lookin' lab as well :)
Hey Steve, I'd say that is the top of the stand (goes over the framework) and the square opening is where the center overflow is located for the plumbing to the sump.
BTW Ron, those cut-in boxes are also called Gem boxes and they utilize a specially designed thin bracket for each side of the box.
If I remember, I'll snap a pic and send it to you.
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Ah okay makes sense, my mind was elsewhere lol
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BTW Ron, those cut-in boxes are also called Gem boxes and they utilize a specially designed thin bracket for each side of the box.
If I remember, I'll snap a pic and send it to you.
I thought about this more since you first mentioned it and do know what you're describing. I used one for another house project a couple years ago when relocating an electrical box.
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Looking good bud I'm liking it. Is the 2nd part a canopy with a feeding port? or something else? Good lookin' lab as well :)
Hey Steve, I'd say that is the top of the stand (goes over the framework) and the square opening is where the center overflow is located for the plumbing to the sump.
That is correct. Here's a better shot of the tank since the only ones I posted prior were when it was coated in condensation:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo.jpg)
A center overflow wouldn't be my first choice, but in lieu of saving money buying used, it's what I have. Would have been cooler if I had a good spot where the tank could be "in wall" and viewed on 3 or all 4 sides. My plan is to have a background on the overflow that matches the background on the tank. Then it'll look like a rock column rather than a big plastic box. I'm curious to see how the fish like it - provides a circular pathway around the tank and I'm wondering if they'll swim laps at times.
Good lookin' lab as well :)
Thanks - and close, she's a golden retriever. Easy to make a mistake though, especially when she blends in with the stand so well. :)
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What is this, a whole week and no new pics/update....I'm sooooo disappointed ;) ;D
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What is this, a whole week and no new pics/update....I'm sooooo disappointed ;) ;D
Not much new - busy with work and other things in life. I cutout the wall on the tank side. I then realized I needed some longer pieces (8' lengths work between stud spans, but not when you start offset from the stud - doh). I picked up some 10' boards last night, so that's back on track. I also needed to pickup some new electrical boxes - got those as well. Should get back on track sometime soon.
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No going back now:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo-1.jpg)
Not exactly sure why it takes so long to accomplish what seems like so little. The above included removed electrical outlets, phone/ethernet/cable jack, insulation, studs, measuring to high tolerance in order to minimize drywall replacement, etc. I also got the framing for the inside sorted out, but need to keep access to the inside of the wall to finish some electrical work after I pick up more wire. Should be ready to move the tank in either next 1-2 weekends.
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I'd presumed I was moving one outlet when cutting out the wall. I forgot the 3 on the other side and didn't expect the wiring laid out how it was with the one I'd planned on swinging out of the way. 2-3 trips for supplies and then more supplies I forgot from the time prior, coupled with not being able to work on this at night since the power is out in that room, has made for slow progress.
Right now the outlets on the other side of the wall are done, tank side the wiring is laid out and the interior framing is cut, so it's a matter of piecing together and feeding the wires through the last few pieces before finishing the outlets. I hope to have it done this weekend. Then I'll be at a point where I can finish cutting out the viewing side of the wall and start figuring out exactly how I want to trim it all. I should be able to move in the tank soon and it will really start to look like something other than a big mess. ;D
How things stand now:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo-2.jpg)
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The stand sure makes a nice work bench ;D
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-7.jpg)
Electrical is done and it's starting to look like something!
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-7.jpg)
... and then I took a break to watch Michigan football ... feeling like I wasted time that could have been better spent working on this project. >:(
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I knew it'd be dusty, but damn ...
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-8.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-8.jpg)
Photos is fuzzy because the basemen is so damn dusty. Progress made, but that's it for today. Hopefully the settles for tomorrow morning. Clean-up, a little drywall work, and another trip needed for supplies (trim) starts tomorrow.
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On a unrelated note. How do you like that hammer? I looked at one that looks similar to that and was a little iffy on it. I broke 2 last week so need a replacement soon.
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On a unrelated note. How do you like that hammer? I looked at one that looks similar to that and was a little iffy on it. I broke 2 last week so need a replacement soon.
It's a 16oz head with fiberglass handle made by Plumb and I bought it about 10 years ago at Home Depot. I do like it. The head has been solid and the fiberglass helps relieve hand shock a bit. I've had a few other wood ones become loose over the same time. I have an old one with a metal body that I like even better from the perspective that it can't be broken, but it's hard on the hands over an extended period.
On the topic of tools used for this project, a few more notes...
Rotozip/spiral saw > Drywall saw/knife > 'drywall fine-tooth hacksaw blade'-thing
The rotozip is just so much faster and easier for me. Just set the depth so you're barely cutting all the way through the drywall and it's impossible to get caught up on interior studs/insulation/wiring/etc. The saw worked alright, but leaves a rougher cut. The other thing (not sure the proper name) was nice in principle - easier to cut a straight line, smaller kerf, etc. Every time I hit a stud it'd bend.
The fancy torx-headed screws are the bees knees. I never tried them previously due to cost, but the difference was negligible this time around. They work as advertised and hardly ever slip. It's much easier to apply torque and not be concerned about stripping out a head or ruining a bit.
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Yeah I broke the heads off two so that is good to know I do have a metal one but for demo that is like 3 swings and your done . those screws are awesome I just started using them as well and like them way better when using an impact with them
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Awesome man love seeing the updates keep them coming. Lookin' good too 8) Without going back (maybe you said) whats the stock gonna be again?
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The original stocking plan was haps and some clown loaches.
Right now I've got the following haps in the bullpen:
N. livingstoni
P. phenochilus
C. euchilus
E. anagenys
F. rostratus
S. fryeri
P. sp "Taiwan Reef"
D. compressiceps
C. borleyi
P. spilonotus
P. taenioulatus "Tangerine Tiger"
^ Most of those are small groups (3-6 fish) and I'm not sure if I'll put entire groups into the big display tank.
I've got a few others in mind as well, but will add fish over time and not be in a rush to fill it up entirely. I'm also not sure how many fish would be "full". On my 6' 100, 16-18 haps was a good number. On my 6' 150t, 18-22 was a good number. This tank is roughly 550 gallons and I'm still not sure how I'll do the sump setup, but it'll either be a single 150 gallon or dual 100 gallon tubs.
So 8'x4' footprint with close to 700 gallons of water volume = how many haps? I don't want it to look like the infamous Toronto malawian cichlid tank:
(http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/hobbyist_gallery/toronto.jpg)
I've also got a couple groups of clown loaches and a group of WC S. multipunctatus that I'm thinking of adding.
Stocking seems so far away though. Next up, I've got to finish the trim on the tank-side and paint before assembling the stand again to check the final height one final time prior to moving in the tank. Once the tank comes in, I'll get the general plumbing laid out and things might go faster once those parts arrive. Right now I'm not sure how realistic it would be to expect it running anytime before November.
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I may have some extra males you'd like
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The original stocking plan was haps and some clown loaches.
Right now I've got the following haps in the bullpen:
N. livingstoni
P. phenochilus
C. euchilus
E. anagenys
F. rostratus
S. fryeri
P. sp "Taiwan Reef"
D. compressiceps
C. borleyi
P. spilonotus
P. taenioulatus "Tangerine Tiger"
^ Most of those are small groups (3-6 fish) and I'm not sure if I'll put entire groups into the big display tank.
I've got a few others in mind as well, but will add fish over time and not be in a rush to fill it up entirely. I'm also not sure how many fish would be "full". On my 6' 100, 16-18 haps was a good number. On my 6' 150t, 18-22 was a good number. This tank is roughly 550 gallons and I'm still not sure how I'll do the sump setup, but it'll either be a single 150 gallon or dual 100 gallon tubs.
So 8'x4' footprint with close to 700 gallons of water volume = how many haps? I don't want it to look like the infamous Toronto malawian cichlid tank:
(http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/hobbyist_gallery/toronto.jpg)
I've also got a couple groups of clown loaches and a group of WC S. multipunctatus that I'm thinking of adding.
Stocking seems so far away though. Next up, I've got to finish the trim on the tank-side and paint before assembling the stand again to check the final height one final time prior to moving in the tank. Once the tank comes in, I'll get the general plumbing laid out and things might go faster once those parts arrive. Right now I'm not sure how realistic it would be to expect it running anytime before November.
NIIIIIIIIICE dude very nice, you have some great fish listed there. How big are they? They adult size fish? How big are the clowns?
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I may have some extra males you'd like
Sounds good. I'm really trying to hold back from picking up anything more until the tank is running because I'm basically out of space with the tanks I do have running.
The original stocking plan was haps and some clown loaches.
Right now I've got the following haps in the bullpen:
N. livingstoni
P. phenochilus
C. euchilus
E. anagenys
F. rostratus
S. fryeri
P. sp "Taiwan Reef"
D. compressiceps
C. borleyi
P. spilonotus
P. taenioulatus "Tangerine Tiger"
^ Most of those are small groups (3-6 fish) and I'm not sure if I'll put entire groups into the big display tank. ...
NIIIIIIIIICE dude very nice, you have some great fish listed there. How big are they? They adult size fish? How big are the clowns?
None are what I'd call adult. Some are 6"+, most are 3"-4", and a few are a little smaller than that yet. I have a pair of clowns that are 6"+, one around 4", and the rest of the group is 2.5"-3". I'm looking forward to when they make the move, because I suspect they'll all have significant growth spurts.
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I think you are underestimating Ron, and especially the 6" clown, that's good size man, I have a trio of clowns barely 3 yrs old that are maybe 5" or so if that. ?Sounds like you got some good size fish. That's gonna be a great tank when it's up.
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No worries man I have the room to hold them. I have a bunch of extra male champs I'll have some more mylochromis soon and other stuff I need to look
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^ Good to hear, I'd definitely like both of those!
Updates...
I haven't been adding updates because sanding, filling holes, more sanding, drywall mudding, more sanding, cutting trim, more filling, and more sanding ... etc ... is boring. Painting was largely boring too. Some people seem to love doing that - not me!
Good news: Construction is largely done as of this afternoon!
Front side:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-9.jpg)
Back side:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-9.jpg)
The backside certainly looks more interesting. I added some thick trim around the edges because I preferred that route rather than cutting long, 1.4" strips of drywall to fill the gaps. I'm not sure where the sump is going just yet, so I've got a bunch of outlets on the right and some off to the left on the other concrete wall beyond the frame. I also put some up top over the far corner of the tank to use for whatever lighting I go with. The single is constant power and the double I put on a switch. I have a few ideas for how I might want to set things up and wasn't sure exactly what I wanted, so I added both when I had the wall opened up.
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Looking really good Ron.
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Nice clean work Ron looking very good so far.
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Thanks guys.
I was watching Tom Brady getting it done for a few drives tonight and decided to get back to work myself. Most of clean-up is complete and I also managed to stack the stand back together. The upper-most portion would be a piece of cake with two people, but is barely manageable alone because of it's awkward size and weight (~2 2x8s, 5 2x6s, and a full sheet of 23/32" plywood, lol).
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-10.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-10.jpg)
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Looks really great! Can't wait to see it up and running. Giving me ideas for when I get a house in the next year. Keep up the good work. Almost done.
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Looking good Ron! Operation Dream Tank is really taking shape!
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3/4" foam laid and 3/16" weatherstripping placed around the edges to provide a nice seal between the tank and the wall. I'm currently trying to coordinate between various help with anticipation of being able to move the tank this weekend. We'll see ...
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo-4.jpg)
^The black tape around the edges of the main sheet is so I don't have to deal with crumbling styrofoam pieces from the edges, nor look at ugly styrofoam. The tape attaching it to the stand is temporary to hold it in place while the tank is set upon it. Afterwards I'll trim it with a razor blade and remove the excess so it looks good.
I'm starting to think other aspects of the project, specifically the background attachment. I don't want to silicone a background in since it would be extremely hard to remove from acrylic. Anyone have some idea on what size magnets I'd need for a reasonable pulling force through 3/4" acrylic? (Reasonable as in strong, but not so strong that I either become injured installing them or can't remove them afterwards. I know there are some companies making powerheads that are held in place via magnets for 3/4"- 1" thick tanks, but I've been unable to figure out what size magnets they are using.)
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I know some people that have used some high dollar "rare earth magnets" (I believe they were) to hold backgrounds in place on thick tanks (both glass and acrylic) but not sure where they got them or what they actually cost. I know one guy was on C-F, I'll see if I can find his post from a year or two ago and let you know. Wish you were closer bud, I'd give ya a hand moving it for sure if you weren't so far away.
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Have been watching this thing come along, would love a tank that size.
As far as magnets, check out mcmaster-carr. You would have to figure out what magnets are fish safe first, but I think you would just have to buy a few and see how they work. Most will at least state a pulling force, so you could start small/cheap and work your way up.
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Wish you were closer bud, I'd give ya a hand moving it for sure if you weren't so far away.
Appreciate the offer. ;)
Have been watching this thing come along, would love a tank that size.
As far as magnets, check out mcmaster-carr. You would have to figure out what magnets are fish safe first, but I think you would just have to buy a few and see how they work. Most will at least state a pulling force, so you could start small/cheap and work your way up.
Thanks, I'll look into that. :)
I've gotten things lined up for this afternoon. If everything goes well, later tonight I should have an update with a tank in the photo. ;D
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Through the use of simple tools, it was possible to roll the tank off the trailer and to the back door. It was then stood on one end to fit inside, upon another dolly and rolled inside. (Not too many pictures of how it was moved in, because I was actively helping bringing it in.)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo3-2.jpg)
Picking up the tank for the last 10' of it's trip onto the stand was a bit of a shock, because up until there we'd never picked it up and had no idea just how heavy it was for sure. It took every bit of 4 people and next time, I'm thinking 6 people would make it more pleasant for everyone involved. Thank god for the 3/4" styro between the stand and the tank - it definitely saved some fingers and hands from getting crushed against the stand. Setting it down and removing one's hands was a challenge and often required assistance from others in order for the last person on either end to get out from under the tank.
Getting it up tight against the window wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it would given the weigh of the tank. Over the surface area, the force down upon the styrofoam wasn't too great and it was possible to slide the tank up against the window (as opposed to picking it up and setting it down flush).
End result:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo3-1-1.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-1-1.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-1-1.jpg)
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Great progress buddy! Now comes the fun part! What kind of substrate are you thinking of using? Decor?
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Great progress buddy! Now comes the fun part! What kind of substrate are you thinking of using? Decor?
I knew I wanted sand and wanted it to look natural. After experimenting with play sand and creek sand, I decided to stick with PFS (the larger grain, tan PFS). I swear the pool people know about us fish people and charge a premium for it in the off season. When I first invested in it years ago, I paid $6-$8/bag. This time around I paid just under $12/bag. :o
At the same time, I'm also thankful that I got some - talked to a couple stores who'd run low or out and didn't seem interested in ordering some more in.
Discounting the overflow portion, ~2" in a 8'x4' area would require ~5ft^3. The pool store barely had enough, 10 bags @ .5ft^3, so 500#s later, I have all the sand I should need.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-2.jpg)
I have some rocks on hand, thought about taking some from other tanks since I'm hoping to eventually downsize my tank collection, but I'm starting to think I'll still come up short. Not sure if I'll try to collect some from around my house or go buy some from a shop. I'm hoping to keep some larger sand areas open too, as I'll have phenos, fossies, etc, and would like to see them enjoy searching around in the and like they'd do naturally.
I'm also contemplating a UGJ setup, so I haven't started putting in any sand yet. It'd be easier to get the UGJ and rock work built before putting the sand in.
Currently I'm focused more on trying to get the plumbing designed. I'd like to get the plumbing functional and fill up the tank entirely, just to make sure everything's good before I start putting hundreds of pounds of sand and rock into the tank. It's still a little nerve-wracking to think about the idea of a leak.
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It's looking good Ron I'm really liking it. Gonna be so cool to see all that front to back depth right in the wall once it's filled and has fish. Given any thought as to what type of rocks and or wood and how it's gonna be arranged yet? A nice wood center piece right against the center overflow might look cool. Or maybe a pile of rocks hiding it too. SO many options with a tank like that!
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Right now the front to back depth is really poor with the tank being empty. Then you walk around the corner and it's like "whoa"!
I'm not 100% sure what to do with decor yet. I'm trying to keep it natural, so there won't be wood. Lake Malawi rocky habitat is often large boulders, but I'm not sure I really want to put 100lb rocks into the tank. I'm still mulling over just how much rock work too. I want to keep the tank open a bit with a larger sandy portion. The open, sandy area will be opposite the overflow.
I've got a background for the rear of the tank, I just need to cut it down to size and figure out exactly how I want to attach it (no silicone - needs to be removable without damaging the tank). I was thinking magnets, but may also try fabricating clamps of some kind. I also have a background to wrap the overflow with as well so it won't look like a big plastic box. It'll be a big rock-looking box. :P Hopefully the rocks can help blend the hard edges a bit.
The pump return to the tank will go behind the overflow, out of view. I was going to do a UGJ setup, but have since decided to skip it for now and maybe it later if needed. I have more things to share pictures of, but haven't had the time yet.
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Love the idea of open areas for Phenos and Fossi's. I think too often African tanks have way too much rock work and you really are minimizing the space in the tank. The fish like to swim, not just bounce off of rocks all day. Of course a tank of this size is the exception!
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I've got a background for the rear of the tank, I just need to cut it down to size and figure out exactly how I want to attach it
Okay, you know with the 3d BG guy I am...I have to ask, what background do you have? :)
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I've got a background for the rear of the tank, I just need to cut it down to size and figure out exactly how I want to attach it
Okay, you know with the 3d BG guy I am...I have to ask, what background do you have? :)
Yep. I do think your DIY backgrounds look great. Initially I was going to go that route, then I became worried about how I was going to hold the background in place, since a lot of styrofoam would also be buoyant. I didn't want to use silicone since it'd be hard to remove if it ever needed removal. I did some searching for alternatives.
Looking at premanufactored backgrounds, it was pricey, but considering the time I'd spend going a DIY route and that I'm always short on time, I figured I'd splurge. I checked in to "Back To Nature", the original name in premade 3D background modules. The biggest problem I saw was getting modules that would look good together for the entire length of the tank. I'd also have to connect multiple sections, since the acrylic tank has euro-bracing with a full sheet that contains cutouts (AKA there isn't a big opening in the top of the tank like a glass tank would have).
After more searching for better options I came across flexible backgrounds and pulled the trigger on it. It's a full sheet, but will roll up to fit into the tank, so I won't have to reconnect sections. Taking the texture into account, it shouldn't take more than 1/2"-3/4" of the tank from the width of the tank. It's rubber and won't float - will be held in by the substrate and rockwork along the base and only needs some additional, improvised support along the top (it came with clips to hold it up, but they only work on a non-eurobraced tank. It also saves me the estimated 60+ hours to make a full DIY background. :)
Full length sheet (I still have to cut a couple inches off the height and get some magnets to hold the top up securely)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-12.jpg)
I also got a second portion to wrap the overflow on the three sides viewable from the front - snapped a poor shot of it in the tank:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-12.jpg)
Doesn't look spectacular yet, but should once the tank is filled, full decor, and lighting.
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Ron for magnets try sure grip 100s or even see if you can find some magnivor magnets for cheap.
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Ron for magnets try sure grip 100s or even see if you can find some magnivor magnets for cheap.
Those Sure Grip 100s would work, but $28 per pair of magnets is too hard to swallow. I tried to find some larger pictures to see if any markings on the magnet would give away a part number or something to identify it, but no dice so far.
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I have some actually so I can look for you tomorrow. I'm decided to sell my maginavore 6er too if you are interested in that too. I liked them on acrylic tanks didn't scratch them up like mag floats did.
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I have some actually so I can look for you tomorrow. I'm decided to sell my maginavore 6er too if you are interested in that too. I liked them on acrylic tanks didn't scratch them up like mag floats did.
Sounds good - PM sent as well on the 6ER.
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I've been working on planning the plumbing and acquiring parts. The overflow system is going to be similar to this:
(http://www.reeflogix.com/images/overflow/back-wide.jpg)
(http://www.reeflogix.com/images/overflow/front-wide.jpg)
I also got some rocks washed today:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/RonACRF/photo-6.jpg)
(Rocks are 2 layers deep with most of the smaller ones hidden - tiles are 12"x12" for scale.)
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I've run that drain setup but a little reversed. I normally put the T on the inside so the vent stays in the tank. You can also run a pipe the the bottom this way, and notch the top piece of the T to surface skim.
Personally if instead of capping the end like shown, I would simply run that tube taller than the tank for a vent, and then if it clogged it would not overflow but push water down other pipes. If you cap the ends like that you're going to have a cycle of siphons and a ton of gurgling, running a large open vent through the top will eliminate a lot of that.
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Thanks for the feedback. My impression had been that leaving them uncapped would cause them to be louder than if they were capped, but I've also never run a sump setup before.
The design is along this basis:
1 drain runs at full syphon, which should be quiet once it gets humming.
1 drain runs at less than full syphon and is of a durso-style to quiet the noise. If the water level runs too high, it cuts off the air input, which will allow higher throughput.
1 drain functions only as a backup/emergency drain (higher than the rest) and is intended to allow full syphon, but the extra noise will only occur either at start-up or in a true emergency (otherwise the other two handle the flow rate)
I found it on ReefCentral and there was good support for it being quiet - I guess I'll find out myself how well it works.
My setup will have the drains in tank, in an overflow chamber, and not outside the tank like shown in the photos.
With regards to clogging, I ordered a pump rated at 4280gph at 0' head and am hoping for around 3500gph in reality. I have two 1.5" drains, each good for 2100gph and one 2" drain good for 3300gph (per chart here, gravity flow: http://flexpvc.com/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml). I know the durso style one won't get full flow, but I should have more than enough with any two of the 3 working. The overflow chamber should also help prevent anything large enough to clog a pipe from reaching them.
I'm also not using the ball valves on the drain lines - struck me as pointless. I did get one for the return line (4th line - not shown in images).
If I've overlooked anything or you have any other thoughts, please let me know. Most of the parts are arriving, but I haven't started gluing anything together yet, so changes can be made.
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That's some good sized rock ya got there Ron that'll look good in there 8)
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Ron you're correct on the functioning of that style of overflow. It is dead silent when dialed in. The hum of my little computer fan cooling my lights is louder than my sump pushing 1600 gph.
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Ron you're correct on the functioning of that style of overflow. It is dead silent when dialed in. The hum of my little computer fan cooling my lights is louder than my sump pushing 1600 gph.
Good to hear that from someone with one! Since all my drains aren't the same size, which position would you use the 2" drain with? My initial thought was to use my largest drain for the full syphon, as it would allow the max flow, yet I could also adjust the water level/flowrate if I put a gate valve on it.
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I'd put a gate valve on the siphon line regardless of which one you use. The flow rate at full siphon is a lot higher than that of a gravity fed line with air entering in. My siphon line is the same diameter as the pump line and the siphon line has to be closed close to half way with the gate valve.I would make the "durso" line the largest diameter unless you find your siphon line can't keep up with the pump. The durso line is technically the first "emergency" line, with the third line being a fail-safe, the intention is to have the siphon line do all or nearly all of the draining.
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Anyone have some idea on what size magnets I'd need for a reasonable pulling force through 3/4" acrylic? (Reasonable as in strong, but not so strong that I either become injured installing them or can't remove them afterwards. I know there are some companies making powerheads that are held in place via magnets for 3/4"- 1" thick tanks, but I've been unable to figure out what size magnets they are using.)
FWIW, for anyone else's benefit, I found some reference on RC to needing magnet pairs with 80-120lbs of pulling force for 3/4"-1" thick tanks, in reference to holding powerheads. (This is 2 magnets added together, one from each side, in order to fall in that range.)
My background isn't buoyant and I went with some N45 neodymium magnets in size 1"x1/2" w/46lbs pulling force. Holy cow, these are powerful! I can't break them apart by hand only - need to use a non-magnetic table as a ledge and then they can be driven apart over the edge. After brief testing, they are more than enough. I'll be making some small fabric packets to hold the outer magnet in so it's easier to remove from the tank if need should ever arise.
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Got the background in and then washed ~350lbs of PFS today. Went ahead with completing the hardscape as well (or version 1 at least). The blue in the images is a 5 gallon bucket weighted down, with a HOT filter in it to try and clear up the tank a bit for the time being. Still waiting on PVC parts before I can get the sump running.
Kind of hard to really see it well since it's still cloudy, but here are a few pictures anyways.
Entire tank:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-14.jpg)
Left side:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-14.jpg)
Right side:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo3-9.jpg)
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I like the combination of the background and added rock piles surrounding the overflow, makes it "blend" a bit better than I thought it would when I fist saw the tank.
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Looking good!
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I like the combination of the background and added rock piles surrounding the overflow, makes it "blend" a bit better than I thought it would when I fist saw the tank.
I was pleased as well. Originally I was going to cut sections to fit against each side of the overflow, but suspected it'd look fake. Right now it's got a rounded shape, which wastes some space perhaps, but looks pretty nice. I'd ordered magnets to hold up the back background - need to order a few more to hold back the edges of the little one a little better to keep the fish out from behind it.
My little HOT filter is making progress clearing the tank, but it's slow going. For some reason it's taken a week and my order of PVC fittings still hasn't shipped ... really killing progress.
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Playing around with lighting ideas still. Put 30w worth of 5k LED spotlights on the tank, but think I may need to add a little more and want to add something along the lines of a 50/50 style bulb to bring out the blue fish better. The back of the tank doesn't need to be bright, but seems a bit too dark still. I might wait until I have fish in it to work on this more.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-15.jpg)
Specialty PVC arrived:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-15.jpg)
Bacon arrived:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo3-10.jpg)
Then I got some more PVC pieces from Lowes and HD:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo4-4.jpg)
... and now I'm still slowly piecing things together ...
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Your going slow because of the bacon right?
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Your going slow because of the bacon right?
Yes. 8)
... and because PVC gluing is a slow process. And because I'm still trying to sort out exactly how everything will line up in real life verses my original generalizations. It would have been much faster to just purchase a small army of FX5s to filter this tank tank. I'm hoping the end result of the filtration is as nice as I had originally pictured.
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You would need a small army to clean all those fx5 as well. Sumps are the way to go.
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You would need a small army to clean all those fx5 as well. Sumps are the way to go.
If all goes as planned, I should be able to clean the mechanical easily, anytime I want, without shutting anything off. Will be using 2-3 1"-thick sponges layered vertically, so one can be removed, the rest shifted forward, and the rinsed one set at the back of the line.
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I've been busy with some non-fish stuff, but am still picking away at this. Today I hit a mile store and figured it was time to update this post for anyone who's still interested.
I started with running the plumbing to the sump. I used long elbows for a smoother transition on the drains. They weren't pressure rated like standard PVC, so I went with a traditional 90 for that one (unpictured). I added unions so I could adjust the angle of the lines during/after installation if necessary. I used FlexPVC for the piping between the tank and sump to allow for easier to installation angles and smoother transitions for less loss of flow.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo4-7.jpg)
The drains spill into the sump as follows - the full syphon and larger durso go into a bin where the water must pass through mechanical media first; the emergency drain just goes straight into the sump to help reduce any back pressure it may face.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-19.jpg)
The white basket I found being sold as a "laundry sorter". It only had holes on the two opposing sides, which was easier to work with than baskets with holes all around or none at all. I put in a styrofoam sheet on the one side to block it off and cut Poret® foam to fit firmly on the other. Through the stryo and bin there are bulkheads to route the water out to the biomedia afterwards. Any water has to pass through the foam. I can remove the foremost foam sheet to clean it and rotate the other forward. The PVC piece in there allows me to press/hold the Poret forward against the container without having to get my arm wet.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-17.jpg)
Closeup - if the water backs up as high as the upper holes, it's time to clean the foam.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-17.jpg)
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After the mechanical, the water passes to the wet/dry biomedia towers. Right now there are only two and the third drain serves to avoid an overflow. I plan to make a third tower as well and and another buikhead to function as backup to avoid overflow.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo3-13.jpg)
Each tower has ~6 gallons of biomedia:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo3-12.jpg)
For the return pump, I went with a Laguna 4280 pond pump (4280 GPH at 0' head). I expect it to be around 3500GPH in reality. Also in there is a MagDrive connected to a garden hose - that's the "OMG it's going to flood" pump for safety during testing ... luckily didn't need it. :)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo4-6.jpg)
To keep the heaters secure and free from touching anything that might melt someday, I found some spare metal to attach them to. The fins will help dissipate any heat and keep them off the bottom of the plastic sump.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-19.jpg)
These 300w heaters are long and take up a lot of space in the sump:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo3-14.jpg)
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So it was time to test it a few days ago. One of the first things you'll find researching the use of a Rubbermaid stock tanks for sump use is that the POS bulkhead they sell them with should be replaced with a real one or some day you'll have a leak. From all I found, 1.25" Sch80 was the one to replace it with. Well, it's a bit bigger than some molded flanges on the inside of the container, so I had to grind them down.
I tried hard and suspected I didn't get them 100% flat (not sticking up, not too much gone, they needed to be flat). I start filling up it up, bulkhead if fully submersed, no leaks. Good. Filled it up another 6" and it starts making a puddle on the floor. Tried to tighten it more, though I know too tight would have been bad ... still didn't help.
Draining the tank below the height of my magdrive, as the bulkhead is nearly on the floor of the tank, was a PITA. Did some research and flipped it around so the gasket was on the outside of the tank - should have worked since the outside as 100% flat, but once again, a puddle on the floor after it seemed to be holding. Did some more research and then did what so many people say not to do.
I had some RTV on hand from an automotive project, so I put a ring around the gasket on the inside of the tank and also put some on the outside just for kicks. Hand-tight and let it sit for ~1.5 days. No leaks. ;D
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo4-5.jpg)
Fill up the overflow - no leaks. Filled up the sump and tank to let the entire system run, no leaks!
The overflow is working too good right now. Props out to lilscoots for recommending to use the 1.5" for a full syphon and not the 2". Right now I'm still awaiting gate valves to arrive. During start-up, the 2" durso barely gets going before the full syphon comes on hard and drains the overflow. At that point it sounds like a stuck toilet and the water pouring into the overflow makes you think you're at a splash park. I'm periodically running the system still and eagerly awaiting when I can properly regulate the overflow internal height.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-16.jpg)
I made a return manifold too. Right now all outputs are 1.5" and only the above water portions are glued tight. The rest I can still adjust. Each T has a slip 45, so I have a wide arrangement of rotation to direct the water flow in the tank. I was going for max flow - might try restricting them to a smaller opening to get greater current once I see how the fish poop settles in there.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-16.jpg)
For the sump, I still plan to build a 2-piece foam cover to help conserve heat and reduce evaporation. The mechanical media portion has it's own cover, so I shouldn't need to remove the main cover to clean the mechanical media:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo3-11.jpg)
I'm stillt trying to figure out what I want to do for more lighting. The rock work I'm also not sure on. It doesn't go up as high as I might like, but I also don't want thousands of pounds of rock or any pressure on the rear pane. I'm also still awaiting new algae magnet pads to clean the front pane. Here are a couple full tank shots anyways (I just realized it's only room lighting, no LED in photos:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-18.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-18.jpg)
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Looks great! I hope to see it in person some day.
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Looks great! I hope to see it in person some day.
Agreed
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Looks great! I hope to see it in person some day.
Agreed
No worries guys, I'll be selling tickets soon. :P
Once it's fully going and stable for a while, perhaps an informal gathering is in order.
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Where things stand - I'm going to have to drain the tank down to 1/3 full this coming weekend. I need to install some extra magnets to hold the background to the overflow nicely and "Water Weld" I've learned doesn't stick well at all when applied to a wet surface.
I should also have the gate valves by then. I experimented with using my hand to choke back the drain flow to raise the overflow level and it was actually quiet!
I'm not sure to what extent I'm actually going to cycle the tank. I haven't done that in years! Instead I'll run some sponges from established tanks in the sump for 1-2 months (plus I have some media chilling in established tanks for the last month or so that will also get swapped).
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It looks really good Ron.
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I've been trying to avoid sick coworkers all fall at work, but they finally got me. Not a great weekend overall, but I did manage to get some work done on the tank this afternoon and am happy to report, it's nearly GO TIME now that the sump is done! ;D
I got proper bulkheads on the drains from the tank into the mechanical filter. I also got a gate valve on the syphon line so I could adjust the height of the overflow and the noise is greatly reduced from the water spilling in. From left to right, return line, syphon drain, durso drain, filter emergency drain, and the emergency tank drain.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-20.jpg)
I also got the third wet/dry tower done:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo3-15.jpg)
The new one is a little larger than the first two to take advantage of the extra space. Since it sits over the pump, I cut the lower front for the water discharge rather than straight through the bottom, as the first two are setup. The idea was to avoid turbulence/bubbles being sucked into the pump, adding noise and/or causing bubbles in the main tank.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-20.jpg)
Each tower has an uppermost section of bioballs and a lower section of Poret form pieces (large chunks I had left over from a past hamburgermatten filter project. I keep finding differing opinions on how much biomedia is necessary for a setup like mine, so I just tried to fill it up as full as convenient. Overall, the wet/dry media volume is ~22 gallons. The Poret foam serving as the mechanical filtraiton is nearly another 5 gallons. I also have a 2-3 gallons worth of ceramic media I'd put in currently running tanks to help jump start the cycle which I'll add as well when I move the first fish in. I'd like to think it's more than enough in the end.
When running, both layers are out of the water. When the pump is off, during a power outage for example, I placed a syphon break on the return line in the tank such that it'll back syphon and fill the sump to a height which will keep the lower 1/2 of the wet/dry towers submerged, keeping the bacteria alive.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo5-3.jpg)
Right now the water temperature is about 65F and the heaters are running. I'm not sure how long I'm going to wait before moving fish into it - maybe until next weekend. As I mentioned, I have media right now in running tanks with bacteria on it, plus I could run some existing sponge filters on a temporary basis in the sump as well.
Things that still need to be done eventually:
1. Finish trim on the front side of the display now that I know where the water level resides.
2. Think about what to fill the gap with between the tank and the wall to cut down on noise if possible.
3. Add more lighting
4. Cover(s) for the tank
5. Cover for the sump
6. Shelving in the sump area to make up for the storage the sump and tank displaced.
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Getting the tank up to temperature with 900W of heaters took ~1.5 days, LOL. I'm sure this is going to show on the electric bill. Since then the temperature has been holding just fine and the heaters aren't on all the time.
I added some more LED lighting to the tank. I went with BeamsWork LED fixtures, 1 48" for the right portion of the tank and a second 24" fixture for the left portion of the tank. I thought it was cheaper to go this route than to put a larger fixture across the entire length of the tank, plus it doesn't waste light across the portion occupied by the overflow chamber.
I also moved some established media and started stocking the tank. So far phase 1 stocking is complete with:
C. boryleri 2m/2f
C. euchilus 1m
P. phenochilus 3m
N. livingstonii 1m/2f
S. fryeri 1m
N. venustus 1m
E. anagenys 1m
P. sp. "Taiwan Reef" 1m
P. taeniolatus "Tangerine Tiger" 1m
So that's 16 in there so far.
My replacement pads for the algae magnet got delayed and there's a slight haze of diatoms across most of the front pane, so no pictures just yet. Hopefully next week. :)
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Simply Amazing. I build a 4 foot tall by 4 foot long by 3 foot tall pond/ tank using wood and super thick pond liner in my room when I was in high school. Also walkout basement so cold rest straight on the cement floor.I raised koi. Top down fish anyways. Would have been sweet to have something like this. Any problems with the humidity?
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There isn't a problem with humidity, yet, but it's certainly noticeable. In the room from which the tank is viewed, the opposing wall has a wood furnace that I use as my primary heat for the house, which normally makes the house pretty dry during the winter.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo-7.jpg)
If I keep the door between the rooms closed, the windows get moist, but otherwise it's alright. During the summer I'm hoping to just open the windows if it gets bad.
I'm also working on better covers for everything, without covering the wet/dry filter too well. Right now I've got some random styrofoam sheets over the tank openings and two across either side of the sump opening. I'm hoping to build a nicer fitting lid for the sump to help keep the heat in and limit the moisture lost if possible.
I know what you mean about a cold basement floor too. I built a short platform of 2x6s to help insulate between the floor and the tank. Doing a quick touch of the floor verses the wood, verses the sump, it's certainly working.
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Just use clear corrugated roofing to make tops holds up really well and keeps humidity down.
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Come on Ron don't leave us hanging, let' see some pics of the fish in there! 8)
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Let's see some pics with fish homeboy!! Those Haps probably feel like they've been set free!
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Peer pressure. :P
Here are a few quick shots.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo4-9.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo5-4.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-21.jpg)
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Bout time slacker :P
That looks GREAT Ron I love it. I bet you are pleased as can be now that there are fish in it. Nice looking fish too. I always liked Livinstonii and Placidochromis electra. And is that a big Venustus I see as well? Looks like some nice color on him.
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Bout time slacker :P
That looks GREAT Ron I love it. I bet you are pleased as can be now that there are fish in it. Nice looking fish too. I always liked Livinstonii and Placidochromis electra. And is that a big Venustus I see as well? Looks like some nice color on him.
It's hard to look at it and not smile. No P. electra in there - P. phenochilus is what I believe you meant. The venustus is a new addition from the last MCA auction and typically looks pretty good. I'm not sure what's up with the livingstonii male - this past spring and summer he was a solid blue, but him and the C. euchilus kept exhanging who was tank boss and both aren't as colorful as they've been in the past, but both are healthy and look decent. The fish look good, but should still color up better in time. Full stock list at this time was posted in reply #110 (http://michigancichlid.com/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=5731.msg51704#msg51704).
I'm looking forward to the addition of my clown loaches in a few weeks - should add some nice orange and red to the colors of the tank.
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I see the larger phenochilus above them, but those two below him right on the sand bed sure looks like electra (aka deep water hap) to me? ??? http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1204
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I see the larger phenochilus above them, but those two below him right on the sand bed sure looks like electra (aka deep water hap) to me? ??? http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1204
Yep, they are all Placidochromis and certainly have similarities. The two smaller ones are juvenile male P. phenochilus "Tanzania". As they get old they'll get their speckles. Right now the big one is ~6.5" and the smaller 2 are 3.5"-4".
I don't have better photos of the ones in the tank, but here's a close-up of some young P. phenochilus I bred about 10 years ago. In the foreground is a definite male and behind it is one showing female coloration (could still be a young male). They are probably 2" in the photo. In normal coloration they have the darker barring present.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/smallPhenochilus.jpg)
The P. electra are also really pretty. The first photo in the link you shared is a male in the most dominant coloration. Otherwise they are more of a powder blue without the darker vertical stripes. Here's a couple photos I found of a pair I bred ~12 years ago. First, dominant coloration (they are spawning in the photo):
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/electraSpawning.jpg)
Non-dominant coloration (both male and female are in the photo, below the beastly-looking fryeri):
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/HapGroupShot.jpg)
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The two below are smaller phenos.
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Gotch'ya , I never knew that young P. phenochilus looks so much like P. electra.
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Looking good Ron! Those fish probably don't even know how to act in a tank that big!
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Looking good Ron! Those fish probably don't even know how to act in a tank that big!
I didn't want to ramble on. There are a few interesting observations I've had since they've been in there. If you come over sometime, I can share more. Probably won't organize anything until phase two stocking takes place sometime in December.
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Looks great Ron. Nice work. Can't wait to see it fully stocked. Maybe a spur of the moment visit to Ron's after/before the MCA Christmas Party is in order. :D
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A quick update - things have been going relatively well. About 4-6 days after the initial stocking and feeding everyone well daily the tank got a little cloudy. Nothing terrible - when you're looking through 4'-8' of water there was a haze, but looking through 18"-20" at the overflow it wasn't apparent. I cut back on feeding and did a weekly 17% water change during this while checking the fish daily to make sure they looked to be alright.
2 weeks in, things cleared up. The wet/dry (trickle) filter should be rocking shortly. The ammonia consuming bacteria double every 12 hours roughly and the nitrite consuming bacteria double every 24 hours.
Closing in on a month since initial stocking, phase 2 stocking commenced tonight. I added 3 clown loaches, 8 S. multipunctatus, and a 1 rogue D. compressiceps male that ended up in the net with the clowns. The D. comp was running the growout tank so pulling him should allow some others to color up sooner. He was about 3"-3.5", so I hoped he was large enough to hang with the big guys. So far, so good, but he's easily the smallest fish in the tank. Everyone has been growing really well in the short time they've been able to stretch their fins.
Phase 3 probably won't happen for at least another month (or maybe 3). I've got D. compressiceps, F. rostratus, and P. spilonotus in grow out, but it's hard right now for them to catch up with the growth rates of the fish in the big tank.
I'll get some better pictures out whenever I get around to shooting some with a real camera. The phone pictures aren't coming out as well as I'd like.
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Ron did you do any sort of tops on this big tank? (eggcrate or otherwise). I'm just trying to decided if/what to do on my big tank and I got to wondering what you did with yours for tops if any.
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I've got a handful of small projects left for this tank and a final solution for tops is among them. Instead in December I had Christmas shopping, holiday parties, and various hunting excursions taking priority.
The short answer is that I have my lights positioned over the acrylic bracing right now and all openings are covered with large styrofoam sheets so the fish can't jump out and it helps keep evaporation down. Eggcrate would also work to keep the fish in, but would also allow for nearly maximum evaporation. If there's interest in the long rambling answer, let me know and I'll come back with additional thoughts.
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I use that clear corrugated plastic roofing stuff for tanks. It's cheap and pretty easy to.cut holds up really well also. The stuff I've been using says it has a life. Time guarantee not to break also
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If there's interest in the long rambling answer, let me know and I'll come back with additional thoughts.
Yep just when you get time, I'd be interested in hearing what what you have in mind, no hurry though just when you get a chance is fine.
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If there's interest in the long rambling answer, let me know and I'll come back with additional thoughts.
Yep just when you get time, I'd be interested in hearing what what you have in mind, no hurry though just when you get a chance is fine.
Options I've considered:
#1: DIY with acrylic sheets - The problem is that acrylic absorbs water, so thin sheets will curl after time. Thicket sheets will resist this, but thicker acrylic costs more. I've heard of using something else in addition to the acrylic to act as a skeleton and help keep it straight, most often "egg crate".
#2: DIY glass tops (or buy some from Over The Edge). Depending on the bracing a tank has, you may either have to get some really large tops or add some bracing to support multiple sections of tops across a non-center-braced tank. The only other downside would be the weight IMO. It is possible to buy the hinges, glass and plastic backing (if you needed cutouts).
#2.5: Less fancy glass tops - just use flat sheets of glass. Main downside is it's harder to lift them up for feeding, but you can either purchase slip-on plastic handles or silicone a marble/other object to make them easier to lift.
#3: ABS plastic sheets - these would remain ridged and keep fish in, but are opaque and would block light. Perhaps just using them for portions of the tank that don't have a light immediately above might work.
#4: Styrofoam - easy to work with, may be messy depending on the type of foam, but also opaque.
#5: "Egg crate" - would keep fish in, let light pass, but would allow max evaporation (thus I only ever use it as a temporary cover until finding something better).
#6 Solid, transparent lighting diffuser - There are a bunch of varieties, allowing light to pass in different ways. I'm not sure how easy it is to work with. I'm not sure if it'd warp, but I'd suspect not. It might mess up the shimmering effect of LED lighting depending on the style.
Right now I'm tempted to go with either glass tops or the solid lighting diffuser.
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I picked up some plants from the craft store for use in the tank. Right now I'm soaking them though to see if the dye is going to run and if so, how badly. After that I'll toss them in a smaller, different tank for a little bit with a few other fish just to make sure they'll be safe.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-3.jpg)
I also picked up a few additions for the tank...
4" Aulonocara masoni male (lower left of the 4 fish in the picture):
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-3.jpg)
4" Aulonocara jacobfreibergi:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo3-3.jpg)
^ I wasn't initially going to add any peacocks, but these are a couple of the larger peacock species and should be alright in the tank with all the haps. There's a number of places they can hide from the bigger fish as well.
Champsochromis caeruleus group (2m/3f/1-suspected male), males are around 7", females around 6":
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo4-1.jpg)
^ These are still settling in. They were also part of a larger group that had a more dominant male, hence they aren't colored up very well yet(!).
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Lookin' good, gotta love the Champ 8)
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Lookin' good, gotta love the Champ 8)
Definitely. The group helped fill out the tank nicely and now there's a better distribution of fish across the entire tank instead of always towards the side I feed them on. I hope I get one that looks as good as yours. Time will tell.
I'm starting to feel satisfied with the stock in it, but will still be on the lookout for other larger haps and might eventually need to net out some of the redundant fish in their currently (2x TR males, 2x tangerine tiger males, etc.)
I also threw in the sump a bunch of more misc sponges I had, previously used as pre-filter and/or left over Poret pieces, to serve as added biomedia. It was probably 1-1.5ft^3 in volume and should only help, though the sump has room for even more if desired. 8)
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Love those Champs!
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Nice Ron!
Ever thought about a Boulengerochromis microlepis for that tank? Might end up geting a little to big though...
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That isn't the first time someone suggested Boulengerochromis. They are nice looking fish, but I think an even larger tank would be necessary. I'm aiming to stick with species 18" TL or less.
Eventually I'd like to add some Buccochromis and Aristochromis. Maybe a N. fuscotaeniatus male. I've owned them all at some point and am not at the point of mail-ordering them in, but if I come across them I'll likely add to the tank.
Maybe even Tyranochromis if I come across them. I also realize that some of these fish get too large to safely keep with a few of the smaller ones I've got currently. It's a bridge I'll cross them the time comes.
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Well in that Case maybe some Petrochromis Blue Giants... They Get 15" Some really nice fish.
(http://aqua34.free.fr/photos/cichlid%E9s%20africains/tanganika/Petrochromis%20Blue%20Giant.jpg)
This is a buddy of mine that had some of these in Texas.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh169/SunnyHouTX/Nexus/IMG_20140111_214142_zpstffsvauj.jpg)
Decent sized...
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z131/Stas_07/Novshipment001.jpg)
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Cool fish, but I'm trying to keep it malawian only rather than a mix.
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So it doesn't necessarily fit the biotype, but I added some plants. Looking at only rocks just didn't look as nice. It helped add some more depth to the tank, a splash of color, and helped hide the corners a bit. The reflection on the sides also makes it look larger I think.
Then I goofed around with the lighting a bit. I wasn't happy with the various LED lighting I had up to this point. The back of the tank just looked dark. The LED lighting is very directional, which is fine for narrow tanks, but the fish would swim in and out of the lighting in the upper water column. Colorful --> dark --> colorfui --> dark. Ugh.
I added a 4' double-bulb fluorescent fixture to the middle of the tank. The LEDs lighting I split up between the front and the back of the tank. I still get a shimmer effect, shadows, etc, but the fluorescent lighting spreads out better to help avoid poor lighting areas in the main portion of the tank. It does get darker towards the edges, but sort of prefer that. Bright lighting right to the edges of the tank just makes the limited bounds of a tank more obvious IMO.
Overall, it's better - time will tell if it's good enough or I change things up.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo1-4.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo2-4.jpg)
And one of these days I need to get the camera out to take some real pictures. The phone is just so easy to use, but the pictures leave a lot to be desired.
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I like the plants in there Ron it really makes for a very attractive setting.
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Very nice large set-up. I have found that dimmable led "black boxes" allow for a greater brightness and spectrum control especially over large tanks.
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A very well thought out project Ron, great job!
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That tank makes the Champs look small. Well done.
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Thanks.
When I look at the photos I've taken, I can't help buy feel it often looks smaller than it is. Big tank + big rocks + big fish = smaller tank, w/smaller fish, and normal sized rocks. Without something in the picture to help give scale, both start to look the same. The champs do definitely look small (and really happy!) in it. I'm curious to see how large they grow. Will it be closer to 12" or closer to 18"? I'm hoping they make it at least slightly beyond 12".
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It looks like a pretty darn big tank to me! :D
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Hi Ron,
Your champs will easily reach 11"-12" in your tank. My Champs. Spilorhynchus I got at just over 3" reached a length of 11.75" in my 265. My other two Champs. C. are both 11"+ and still growing.
I agree - a Malawi predator tank would look great! I have the following species of Tyrannochromis and they love large tanks and grow fast (2 xl male Nigreventors 10"+ and 1 small female around 8", pair of Macrostoma's 10"+, pair of Maculiceps 6" range) Contrary to popular belief they are actually pretty peaceful fish - never have any aggression issues with them
Same with Buccos. I have 2 XL male Spectibilis, huge pair of Rhoadessi 11"+, trio of Lepturus green 2m (one make is 11" plus) and 1 f, 1 m nototania, 2 m and 2f Hetrotania, and 1 atritaeniatus - not sure if it is a m or F - but again - peaceful for the most part.
Finally I definitely would not recommend Boulengerochromis microlepis! I stupidly bought 2 of them. They grow very fast and are very aggressive! I got rid of them both.
Thanks.
When I look at the photos I've taken, I can't help buy feel it often looks smaller than it is. Big tank + big rocks + big fish = smaller tank, w/smaller fish, and normal sized rocks. Without something in the picture to help give scale, both start to look the same. The champs do definitely look small (and really happy!) in it. I'm curious to see how large they grow. Will it be closer to 12" or closer to 18"? I'm hoping they make it at least slightly beyond 12".
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Awesome build!!!
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It's been a while since the last update.
Things haven't been going great, so my enthusiasm for the entire project became tempered. I had some problems with ich infiltrating via some new additions this past winter. Treating 650 gallons of water with medication isn't cheap. Trying to net everyone out to treat in a smaller 150 gallon tank and letting the rest of the equipment air-dry to kill off the ich wasn't reasonable either. Salt treatments and lots of electricity for a lot of heaters resolved the ich problems.
So a couple months later, now I'm having nitrate problems. Why, I wasn't sure. Doing 50% water changes isn't feasible, but my projections based on the amount of fish and volume of water, suggested that my weekly 150 gallon changes should have been sufficient.
Turns out that when you have 60-something fish in a tank, when 1 dies, it's not necessarily apparent. Having 60+ fry in a 50 gallon, if a tiny fish dies, there isn't a huge impact on water quality. Having a 6" fish rotting behind the rocks however is a different matter. Having 2 is even worse.
So a big water change to initially dilute nitrates and increased water changes thereafter got things back on track. I've since been losing a fish every month or so. Some were due to my Aristochromis coming of age. Maybe the champs too, but based on my observations, the chrystii looks at some of the other fish from above with a crooked gaze. So goodbye peacocks. I'd picked some of the larger peacock species, but they just didn't grow quick enough. I lost my smaller phenos as well.
Things seemed be going well, but I'm still losing a fish here or there and haven't necessarily figured out why. 1 fish out of 40+ will just start to hang out by itself, uninterested in feeding, with no visible symptoms and within 1 week of becoming antisocial, pass away. However, it has enough energy that it's nearly impossible to net. Really stinks to see it coming, not know what it is, and having little I can do about it.
Aggression isn't a problem. If it were some kind of bacterial infection or a virus, I'd expect my catfish or clown loaches to exhibit symptoms, both being thin-skinned fish and more easily prone to health issues, but they do not.
Doing some more reading on aluminum toxicity, which by prior research was a concern for acidic waters only, may also occur at pH levels higher than 8. Apparently it impacts gill function in some manner. My well water is around 7.8-8.6 depending on the test kit and tester. Time to change things up ...
I'd built my heater battery with an aluminum fin radiator base to keep the heaters off of the bottom of the plastic sump. I've noticed chemical reactions taking place upon it (hence my renewed interest in looking up potential toxicity to fish).
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo%201.jpg)
I'd like to think I'm well learned, but I disliked chemistry and didn't spend any time looking up what is really taking place - if you love chemistry and can explain, I'd love to hear what is really going on. After taking it out of the water, it looks like there is salt adhering to the aluminum rather than the aluminum itself flaking off.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo%204.jpg)
Not as fancy looking, but I had some slate pieces not in use yet. I hardly ever touch the heaters or move things around in the sump, so I'm just placing the heaters atop the slate in the bottom. Should be sufficient.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo%203.jpg)
And from here it's a bit of waiting game again. I have some fossies in grow out. The dominant male is nearly full color now and really wanted to add a trio to the tank, but have absolutely no hurry.
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WOW, sorry to hear. Maybe a PVC heater rack would be a better option. Wider spacing but shorter anchors to zip tie them only by the 1st 4" from the top of the heater. That way they will not be affected by the heat from the elements. Try 1" PVC ripped in half for the anchors and feet and put them back to back with Zip ties or brass machine screws and nuts. They won't affect water quality being so minute and have regular water changes
Do you have any substrate in your tanks? Aragonite will time release carbonates and bi-carbonates in the water and allow for a stable Ph during an unexpected ammonia spike by absorbing the acids produces during the nitrogen cycle. Aragonite is also more efficient than pieces of lime and or crushed coral in the filter.
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I briefly considered PVC, but it releases dioxins and other gases if it gets too hot. Now, I would suspect that it wouldn't get that hot within a sump wit the water flowing, but at the same time I don't think the plastic sump itself would get hot enough to melt either during normal conditions. On the basis of being concerned "just in case", I don't think PVC would be acceptable either. That was my thought at least.
The substrate is 100% PFS. I've considered adding a passive buffer to the sump, but since my pH is higher than necessary to begin with (for tank-raised fish), I haven't.
My biomedia volume far exceeds what is needed for the bioload on the tank. I have changed feeding methods over the last 9 months or so in order to help lesson the potential of any spikes. I went from feeding how I would normally (twice per day, what can be consumed quickly) to feeding a lot once per day (in order to insure all the fish would have a chance to eat), and now back to feeding 1-2 times per day a more modest amount with pellets of varying size so they all get something (loaches and catfish don't compete well with cichlids for larger pellets).
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Gotcha. Yeah I'm sure making the PVC anchor points short and as close to the top of the heaters, you'd be good to go. And as far as the PFS, yeah that doesn't have any actual "buffering" capabilities. Good that Ph is at a nice level but the issue is when ammonia spikes happen. The cabonates and bi-carbonates are what do the work. The absorb the acids that make Ph swing dangerously. So if the acids are absorbed then it doesn't have a lethal effect on the fish. It's all about making buffer capacity and ensuring that the Ph doesn't change or at least only very little.
You could make a refugium in your sump with aragonite sugar grain sand and plants. That would help too.
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I know what you mean by keeping the PVC towards the top of the heaters, but I'm using Jager 300W heaters, so only about the upper 20% of the entire length is without heating coils.
I'll look into the aragonite for buffering. It definitely sounds like a good idea overall. The fish that are passing don't have bright red gills or appear to be gasping, so I'm not so sure it's ammonia to blame, but since I can't put a finger on the exact cause, I'll consider it still just in case.
I've thought about plants in the sump, but really didn't want to worry about lighting and my dog having access to the plants. As of right now, I do have 3 pothos plants suspended from above the tank, so my dog has absolutely no access to them, but they are growing slowly because someone (clowns?) keeps nipping off the roots that extend beyond the sponge they are planted in (so the roots have some protection, but only for a limited depth). I should post pics sometime - overall it worked out nice short of the fish eating the roots.
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Yeah I think you could make it work with the PVC. Just like Jager heater holders they come with. That length.
Okay, so no ammonia burn. That's good. What do their bodies look like? Bloated at all. Or something else?
So you've actually seen them die? So they have a seizure like death, darting into things or do they just have rapid breathing or something and then they just stop and are dead?
Where are you getting these fish from? Various places...
Sorry about all of the questions. Just probing for a solution I guess.
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Yeah I think you could make it work with the PVC. Just like Jager heater holders they come with. That length.
The plastic holders they come with have suction cups to maintain position. Eventually those suction cups fail, so I didn't use them in the first place. If I attached PVC only to that portion, the weight of the heater will tip it downward so the end with the coil will touch the bottom. For the time being, I think the rocks under the heaters will be sufficient.
Instead I've considered the idea of making something similar to the aluminum radiator I had, but with copper. I haven't spent any time yet looking up if the copper might impact the loaches or cats at all.
Okay, so no ammonia burn. That's good. What do their bodies look like? Bloated at all. Or something else?
No bloat. No discoloration. Nothing visible in their mouth or on their gills (I've cut a few open to look better).
So you've actually seen them die? So they have a seizure like death, darting into things or do they just have rapid breathing or something and then they just stop and are dead?
I haven't seen it immediately upon death, but shortly before. They are just floating about (not actually at the top, but not swimming around a lot) without interest in much and then I find them upside down behind the rock work. They aren't slamming around the tank, shaking, etc.
Where are you getting these fish from? Various places...
The last time I got anything new was around the time of the ich outbreak. I've basically lost interest in getting anything since then from anyone that is larger than 2" (and haven't added anything to this tank). Since the ich (and even then i had quarantined for 3 weeks before transferring fish into the display tank), I have separate equipment (pumps, nets, hoses, etc) for the display tank from my fishroom.
Sorry about all of the questions. Just probing for a solution I guess.
I understand. I'm not exactly a novice and at the same time this isn't exactly easy to resolve. I've been quiet on comment because the basic responses everyone posts to online cichlid health issues has been considered. The water volume is too large to throw medications at. At the same time, recently things have been better overall than they had been. Hopefully removal of the aluminum has some appreciable impact.
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You have had a bacterial infection from another source going on. Definitely sounds like it. No real outward signs. They just die.
Here is what I'm thinking for your PVC Heater holder. The Long OVC feet would hold the heaters horizontal.
Sorry it was just a quick sketch in windows paint. ;)
(http://img538.imageshack.us/img538/7216/BKLLjd.jpg)
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You have had a bacterial infection from another source going on. Definitely sounds like it. No real outward signs. They just die.
I considered that at one point, but really thought there should be more fish impacted at a time or some outward signs. IIRC, the medication cost to treat for gram negative and gram positive bacteria was around $300. I did manage to catch 1 multi and 1 O. tetraspilus which appeared to not be doing well on 2 separate occasions. I tried treating both in 20 gallon tanks with bacterial meds and the meds appeared to have no appreciable impact in their health. Both lasted around 1-2 weeks and passed.
Here is what I'm thinking for your PVC Heater holder. The Long OVC feet would hold the heaters horizontal.
Sorry it was just a quick sketch in windows paint. ;)
(http://img538.imageshack.us/img538/7216/BKLLjd.jpg)
That's not exactly what I had first imagined and looks like it'd work well. Thanks for the idea.
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potential gram positive then?
I figured that seeing it would help you get, better, what I saying. Glad it helped! :D
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I hope it works out for ya Ron. I know how it is with a huge tank, my 265 gave me issues even though it was only 2 months. I had ich, death, nitrate and other issues which I chased. I hope you don't get discouraged because your tank is awesome.
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you can also get led (fluorescent replacement) tubes in different lengths for about $15 per tube
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It's been a while and I'm perhaps overdue for an update.
I've since moved to doing larger water changes on a slightly less frequent basis. In addition to draining the 150 gallon sump, I also drain the tank down 1/4-1/3 of the way every 2-3 weeks and things have been going well. Nitrates are lower overall, no more fish issues, and everyone is happy.
The fish are big, but still look small. My taiwan reef, tangerine tigers, and spilonotus are finally coloring up too. Overall, I'm pretty pleased.
I"d experimented with some vals planted in pots ... that didn't last a week, so not plants *in* this tank still. I also did some pothos quite a while back and the loaches will just not leave the roots alone, so they are growing, but really slowly because they have minimal roots. Tonight I tried zip-tieing some baskets used for propagating plants to the bottoms of the sponges they are planted int so they can grow a bit further without being eaten. We'll see how it turns out.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo%201%20copy_1.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo%202%20copy_1.jpg)
A flake frenzy! (feeding flake during the water change since it won't be suck into the overflow with the pump off).
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo%203%20copy_1.jpg)
^For scale, that's a 10"+ venustus. ;)
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Glad to see ya update this Ron, tank and fish both are all looking great. Good to hear it's all working well for you now 8)
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Thanks Steve. I'm not sure if you recognize him, but "4 spots", the clown with the non-standard marking in a couple of the photos above is one from the group I'd picked up from you. Between those and my original group, I've got 9 in there.
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I thought it was. I remember a couple of the ones you got from me were pretty recognizable from the average clowns. And is that a Champ I see in there as well?
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I know this may be a kind of off the wall idea but if your using that much energy in electric heaters might you try to tie it into your hot water heater for your house?
use a small circulation pump with an external thermometer and control unit to regulate the flow of water, whether it be fish water out of the tank or closed loop heating water
you might even be able to run it off of the pilot light
yes I am an engineer and unfortunately my brain never shuts off
Colin
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I know this may be a kind of off the wall idea but if your using that much energy in electric heaters might you try to tie it into your hot water heater for your house?
use a small circulation pump with an external thermometer and control unit to regulate the flow of water, whether it be fish water out of the tank or closed loop heating water
you might even be able to run it off of the pilot light
yes I am an engineer and unfortunately my brain never shuts off
Colin
Thanks for the idea. I'd briefly considered something like that, but I wanted to run a loop to a copper coil within my wood furnace to provide hot water. The problem is that both the water heater and the furnace are on the opposite side of the basement. The walls are finished, the ceiling is finished, and the joists run perpendicular to the direction of travel needed for the piping. It'd either need a huge overhaul to hide the lines, or leave them exposed, ugly, and beyond that I'm curious what kind of heat loss would result.
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These 300w heaters are long and take up a lot of space in the sump:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/RonARCF/photo3-14.jpg)
[/quote]
if you are passing the water across the heater(s) shouldnt you be able to cut down on the number of heaters or watts? up to a point of course
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if you are passing the water across the heater(s) shouldnt you be able to cut down on the number of heaters or watts? up to a point of course
Thanks for the feedback. Passing water across the heaters allow them to most efficiently heat the tank (if the water was stagnant, the heaters would heat the water near themselves above the target temperature while the other reaches of the tank (presumably where the temperature sensor is) would take much longer to rise to the target temperature.
There is ~3600gph passing through that sump space. It has anywhere from 50-100 gallons, so there's plenty of turnover through the areas in which the heaters reside.
I actually had a bout with ich about 1-2 years ago and found the limitations of the heaters shown in the pictures. To raise the temperature high enough, I actually added another 550W of heaters at that time. These days I'm running 4 300W heaters in the sump. Using the heater controller, they are all synchronized to turn on and off in unison.
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Just thought I would bump this and see how the monster tank has been doing lately Ron?
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Everything has been going well. No issues other than the pothos don't really grow like I'd hoped. Recently they are starting to pick up a little now that the roots have a bit more protection from the clown loaches. I added a pair of fossies (around 5.5" - smallest in the tank) and a T. macrostoma male (7") I'm hoping will color up in time.
I do want to redo the filtration setup so it's easier to use filter socks for mechanical filtration with 100% pass through. I picked up some stuff to work on this, but haven't spent the time to start on it yet. I kind of have an idea of what I want to do, but won't know how it really works until I get going with it. I'll post an update when it gets changed eventually.
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Hey Ron! How about a new pic of this monster tank?
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Anything new in the tank Ron? Always enjoy seeing updates on the monster.
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Yeah, I need to get some pictures up sometime. I switched it all around to a new group of haps. Still have some buccos and fryeri, but also have some C. moorii, new Copadichromis, Mylochromis, ... a little different than before.
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Didn't read all the post so if im repeating something about lighting sorry about that. You can do a led diy using 8' of gutters(vinyl) 2 pieces of 8' long 1"pvc, chrome tape and led light strip off of ebay amazon etc, for about 80 bucks.Oh thats as long as you not doing plants.
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Enjoy this thread's pictures while they last. Photobucket just notified me that they detected 3rd party hosting via my account and want me to pay $400 per year (:o) per their new policy if I want to keep this feature enabled. >:(
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They're already gone mate :(
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They're already gone mate :(
LOL - Maybe I prompted that to happen by posting. Sad to see.
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Boo!!