Fish issue

[Steve]

Got an issue with my big Venustus and could use some input on what it may be because I hate treating a fish just on a guess. He's flashing like crazy rubbing himself on rocks to the point of knocking scales off and having white spots where he's rubbed the scales off. He'll sit in one spot and shimmy/shake for a few seconds then take off across the tank and rub on a rock. I've had him for over a year and he's done this before a few times but never to this extent.

There's no females in the tank and it's defiantly not a dominance thing. It's not ich because the water quality is very good, and he's the only fish that shows any signs of this behavior, plus as I mentioned he's done this in the past to a degree but just not like this.

Even though ammonia & nitrite were 0 and nitrate was only 20ppm I went ahead and did a 60% WC and added a treatment of Prazipro.

After doing some searching online I almost think it seems like Velvet, but when I shine a light on him I don't really see any signs of a rust/brown color at all on him.

Anyone got any ideas? 

[danielratti]

PH water hardness and temp would be a help too.

[Steve]

PH 7.8 and temp is 80.4 Havent taken a gh/kh reading but will soon as I find my test kit for that, it's here somewhere just not sure where at the moment.

[GrizzlysDad]

getting ready to break out with a ich IMHO.

[African cichlid Keeper]

When my cichlids do that its normal a external or internal parasite.

[GrizzlysDad]

Oh, and as you're probably already aware Steve, Ich is an external parasite.
It typically starts in the gills before you see it on the body.

I'd crank the heat up and add some salt....nip it in the bud before it breaks out on the body.

[Steve]

I'm starting to add salt gradually right now as well as bump the heat up slowly. I am sure it is either velvet or ich, but I am leaning towards velvet. Mainly just because this same fish has done this in the past (just not as bad) and in the past he has never shown any white spots or telltale signs of ich. He's always had a bit of the head shaking thing the whole time I have owned him which I always thought was a bit weird.

 My plans are to treat the tank with salt & heat just to be on the safe side. Plus I just finished setting up a spare 20g tank and I plan to run out to Oceans and Seas tomorrow and buy a bottle of Coppersafe. That way if he shows signs of getting worse then I will isolate him and hit him with the Coppersafe. Then just keep up the heat & salt in the main tank because I have a school of loaches and cats in there and not sure how they would react with the Coppersafe.

Hopefully I've caught whatever this is soon enough and don't lose him.

[Steve]

Just picked up something called Cupramine made by Seachem. Supposed to be a safer alternative to Coppersafe. Gonna wait and keep and eye on him today and see how the salt &heat seems to be working before isolating him and using this.

[Mastiffman]

Steve, Sorry to hear. I have some questions....

- How long have you had him and where did you get him?
- Has anything changed recently to bring this on?
- What was he kept around or introduced to at his previous owners place?
- What, if any, do you use for water additives?

 Noticeable fluctuations in hardness can cause this reaction. What do you use for water treatments?

 Sounds more like external parasite than internal. If you don't see a covering of fungus, especially using a light, I wouldn't go with fungus. If he's flashing in certain spots, I'd go with a parasite control myself and your best bet would be something like parasite guard or nitrofuracin green.

 Both are Anti-Parasite, Anti-Fungal, Anti-Bacterial and Bacteriocidal. But the paraiste guard is morereadily available and will have the ability to get rid of interanl and external worms/ parasites as well as fungus while protecting him and the rest of the tanks inhabitants from secondary infections.

 I would also throw some Kordon "Fish Protector" into the mix as it creates a tripple layer mucus coating use polymere colloids that will aid in medication adherance as well having Echinacea in it to boost their immune systems. Fish protector can be safely used every day fro a week or every other day for two weeks.

[Steve]

I've had him for about 12-18 months. He was housed in a 55g with some small Mbuna till I had the 265g tank up and running. Now he's been in the big tank for the past month. Only water additives I use is just API Water Conditioner or Prime depending which I have on hand during the WC's.

Had to take some action a few hours ago. He was really rubbing bad on the rocks and I have also started to notice a few other fish in the tank flashing, still no visual signs of ich or velvet though. So I moved the Venustus to a Q-tank and dosed him with 15 drops of Cupramine. I've also started raising the temp in the main tank (plan to take it too 86F within 24hrs) and I have also started adding salt at the rate of 2 TBS per 5 gal slowly over the next 24hrs. I've lowered the water level as well to about 1/2" below the spray bars to get some more surface agitation since I'm raising the temp. If it is ich then I'm hoping that I have caught it in the very early stages since there is no signs of any white spots on anyone.

[Steve]

I'm now 99.9% sure it is velvet and not ich as I can slightly see some fish showing signs of a few spots of brownish gold color in spots. Have the temp cranked to 86 and salted plus blacked out.

Once I get past this issue I think I'm going to have to get rid of the big OB that's in the tank. He's a real relentless sunofagun just chasing non stop, even chases the catfish if you can believe that. So I think his nonstop aggressiveness is stressing the rest of the fish out to the point of running down their immune systems making them more susceptible to problems. Hate to see him go because he's a beautiful fish, but it'll be in the best interest of the tank.

[GrizzlysDad]

Not surprised that the OB Peacock is causing problems with aggression.
They're a hybrid originated by crossing an OB Zebra with a peacock so they can be aggressive like a large zebra.

[Steve]

Update- They seem to be improving. The dark, heat&salt in the main tank seems to be starting to work. Flipped a dim light on for about 10mins this morning and never saw any of the cichlids rub/flash. Loaches still do a bit but they may take a bit longer to cure them. The big venustus I'm treating separately with Cupramine seems a tad better as well. This morning he went after food like he always does. Going to keep up the treatments for another 2-3 weeks but looks like things are improving thankfully. Guess there is something to be said for watching your fish every day for a bit to make sure no one is acting out of character so you can catch things early.

[Maize-N-Blue-D]

I'm now 99.9% sure it is velvet and not ich as I can slightly see some fish showing signs of a few spots of brownish gold color in spots. Have the temp cranked to 86 and salted plus blacked out.

Once I get past this issue I think I'm going to have to get rid of the big OB that's in the tank. He's a real relentless sunofagun just chasing non stop, even chases the catfish if you can believe that. So I think his nonstop aggressiveness is stressing the rest of the fish out to the point of running down their immune systems making them more susceptible to problems. Hate to see him go because he's a beautiful fish, but it'll be in the best interest of the tank.

Maybe that is why he was dropped off at the LFS in the first place. 

[Steve]

He didn't come from a LFS, I bought him from a fellow MCA member about a year and a half ago. He was fine in the 55g mbuna tank. Just got real nasty since he's been in the big 265 with the haps now.