Author Topic: Fish room heating.  (Read 3292 times)

Offline danielratti

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Fish room heating.
« on: September 24, 2013, 10:25:01 PM »
I know Im beating a dead horse here with this post but maybe I am thinking to hard on it but to heat X gallons of water Y degrees will require X * Y * C Watts, where C is a constant value. does it make any difference which way you do this? So basically, if I want to keep a certain water at a certain temperature, then the energy needed will be the same no matter which method you use correct?

90% of the tanks have glass tops or are covered in 2 inch foam now would this also work as a insulator to help keep the heat inside of the tanks? I have a gas fireplace in the room that can heat the room to a easy 80 to 90 degrees but that isn't really the most comfortable to work in. I know there was someone saying the heat kicked off by a dehumidifier is enough to heat a room as well.

Offline four_by_ken

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Re: Fish room heating.
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2013, 11:03:39 PM »
X*Y*C isn't true.  The temp of the room has a lot to do with it.

I can heat my living room tank with a 200 Watt, but move that tank to th's basement and it no longer will be enough.


Offline danielratti

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Re: Fish room heating.
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2013, 11:20:15 PM »
Ok, yes you are very correct there. but I was referring more about multiple tanks. adding 200 watt heaters to every tank would be more energy then heating the entire room wouldn't it? It would be around 1800 watts on top of the 500 I use for my 200 and that would be 2.3 kwh and whatever it costs for me to run it a hour. I know they will not always stay on but I know there is a downfall to doing it that way as well. You will get the temp you want but also the tanks will radiate heat out as well causing moisture to form on the the walls windows ect. I could be wrong there this is why I am asking. But also heating the room could use more then heating the tank as well.... I could be wrong on it but don't feel comfortable leaving a fireplace running when I am in bed or at work but if something was to go wrong there is 400+ gallons of water to put out any fires.

Offline four_by_ken

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Re: Fish room heating.
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2013, 11:46:03 PM »
 doesn't heat the basement... which is where I have a 150, 140, 50, 40, 40 and a 10.

My meter goes nuts when the temps drop as the basement can drop into the low 60s easy.

I would love to add another pellet stove in the basement.



Now what does this have to do with your original post... I don't know... I am rambling...  time time get time sleep.

Sorry for hijacking.


Offline danielratti

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Re: Fish room heating.
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2013, 11:56:11 PM »
How cheap are these pellet stoves you speak of? I was going to get a oil drum and make trash can fires to heat the house. Last one we rented was only 800 some sqft. the one we bought is a little under 2,000sqft maybe new heating options. I also have all my tanks upstairs at this time. I might finish the basement some and put the tanks down there eventually but there is only 2 of us and the dog so I can do whatever I want.


time time get time sleep.


Im glad to see im not the only one who has already had a long week...

Offline four_by_ken

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Re: Fish room heating.
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2013, 07:09:42 AM »
Hmmm... part of my post didnt show up...  I will finish it here.


I have a 1400 sq ft house, not including the basement.  With natural gas not being an option, I have to have a propane furnace... not cheap.  So, after the first couple years here, we went and got a pellet stove.  But, it doesn't heat the basement... which is where I have a 150, 140, 50, 40, 40 and a 10.

My meter goes nuts with the tank heaters when the temps drop as the basement can drop into the low 60s easy.

I would love to add another pellet stove in the basement.



Now what does this have to do with your original post... I don't know... I am rambling...  time time get time sleep.

Sorry for hijacking.

Offline four_by_ken

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Re: Fish room heating.
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2013, 07:14:40 AM »
How cheap are these pellet stoves you speak of? I was going to get a oil drum and make trash can fires to heat the house. Last one we rented was only 800 some sqft. the one we bought is a little under 2,000sqft maybe new heating options. I also have all my tanks upstairs at this time. I might finish the basement some and put the tanks down there eventually but there is only 2 of us and the dog so I can do whatever I want.


time time get time sleep.


Im glad to see im not the only one who has already had a long week...

This is definitely one of the, "You get what you pay for" items.  The inexpensive pellet stoves that you see at TSC and Home Depot are just that cheap.  They will be great for a couple years, but after that they tend to get blocked, etc and require a lot more maintenance.

When we fire ours up for the season, it runs as long as we are home.  The only issue I have had with it is some cheap pellets that didnt ignite well and also if I let the cleaning slip too long. 

On average, I use one bag of pellets a day, about $4.  This heats the living room to almost 80 and the rest of the house to about 70.  Because of my house setup, its all the way at one end of the house.  It would be perfect if I could put it in the middle of the house.

The furnace only runs when we are not home to keep the chill out of the house.

I broke down and went with a Quadrafire stove.  Very happy with it.  It will burn pellets and also corn (if the corn is REAL dry).

I clean the little burn pot, every time I put in a bag of pellets (usually first thing in the morning).  Then clean the ashes out once a week or so.


Offline Ron

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Re: Fish room heating.
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2013, 07:50:47 AM »
The unit you're probably looking for is BTU. 1 BTU is the energy necessary to heat 1 pound of water 1 degree F in a constant atmospheric pressure. It's the standard when it comes to describe heat loss/gain.

If you wanted to convert it to the wattage of room/tank heater(s), 1 BTU is 0.293071 watt-hour.

For a particular room, you need a certain amount of BTUs to raise the room temperature over ambient. Then depending on how well insulated the room is and it's difference between room inside and outside temperature, you'll have a certain heat exchange of BTUs (typically for loss because we live in MI).

In a perfect world with no heat loss, yes, the wattage for heaters is the same whether you've got a lot of in tank heaters, or a single room heater.

In the real world, if you heat the tanks, the tanks loose heat to the room('s air), and the room loses heat to outside itself (also fastest through the air). So if you have in tank heaters, the heat in the tanks will be greater than the heat in the rooms air. For example, if the temperature outside the fishroom was 68F and the tanks at 78F, the room temperature might be something like 76F. (Humidity might make it feel hotter FWIW).

Also in the real world, if you heat the room, you're room's air is loosing heat to the tanks (necessary to heat them - we like this) and to the outside. So if you heat the room, the room is typically going to be hotter than the tanks. For example, if the temperature outside the fishroom is 68F, to keep the tanks at 78F you might need to heat the room to 80-81F.

If heating the room, the more you insulate the room, the less heat loss and the less gap between the room temperature and the tank temperature.

FWIW, I started with heaters in all my tanks and slowly one by one began unplugging them over a period of days after adding a dehumidifier (since it adds heat as well when running). I started removing the heaters from upper tanks since heat rises. I also started with the smaller tanks since they have less volume, so less heat retention IMO. All my tanks below waist high right now are running ~80F. The room air is 78F. The tanks nearer the ceiling are 77F and those in the middle run about 76F.

With my room, working backwards was easiest. At this point I can add in additional tanks and anything at waist level or above simply doesn't need a heater (saves me from the expense of buying one, nor does it cost anything more to heat the room at this point with more tanks. If anything it actually save money per greater heat retention!).

If I move to a room heater, I'd add the heater, the in-tank heaters won't run if it's how enough, and then I'll start working backwards unplugging more tank heaters.
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Offline RichE

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Re: Fish room heating.
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2013, 09:07:21 AM »
Thanks for that answer Ron, It was long and detailed but very well understood.

Make's a lot of the un-answerd questions roll into one, and the biggest thing is it makes sense :)
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Offline PowerCerg One

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Re: Fish room heating.
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2013, 12:13:30 PM »
If you heat the room to a certain temperature and it remains constant, unless the tanks are touching the outside environment, all objects within the room should reach the same temperature. If you heat the room to 80 degrees, eventually the tank water should reach 80. If you throw some ice cubes in a pan heated to 212 degrees, they will (begin to) evaporate.