Author Topic: Breeding question  (Read 3312 times)

Offline neilsarah

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Breeding question
« on: September 20, 2013, 07:54:11 PM »
I have an unknown male red peacock (either ruby or red shoulder but not for sure) in a tank with some strawberry red peacock females. If one of the females ends up holding are the fry worth keeping or are they considered a hybrid?

Offline Regalblue

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Re: Breeding question
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2013, 08:32:05 PM »
Hybrid

Offline lilscoots

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Re: Breeding question
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2013, 08:35:17 PM »
For sure hybrids not worth keeping.  Also, fwiw, strawberry peacocks are already a hybrid.

Offline neilsarah

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Re: Breeding question
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2013, 08:53:25 PM »
I got these from mr Stevens. I do not think they are hybrids. They are not the strawberry peacocks you see in stores. He has a large fish room and I don't think he would raise hybrids. He called them strawberry red peacocks.

Offline lilscoots

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Re: Breeding question
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2013, 09:04:59 PM »
The breed is a hybrid...it was man made, it's true breeding (meaning you get offspring that look like the parents) but you for sure will not find it in the big lake in other words it is not a natural species.  There are several peacock hybrids in the hobby - strawberry, ruby crystal, dragonsblood which are color variants of the same hybrid, OB peacock (aulonocara crossed with an OB mbuna).

Offline Ron

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Re: Breeding question
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2013, 09:24:05 PM »
The breed is a hybrid...it was man made, it's true breeding (meaning you get offspring that look like the parents) but you for sure will not find it in the big lake in other words it is not a natural species. 
FWIW, there's a difference between line breeding and creating hybrids. I don't disagree on your comments about the types you mentioned, but there are others, example "german red", that while aren't truly found in the lake, aren't technically hybrids either. Some peacock types came to be through line breeding.
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Offline lilscoots

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Re: Breeding question
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2013, 09:28:31 PM »
Correct, German reds are just line bred Aulonocara stuartgranti (most likely chipoka - I've got an F1 group of these working - beautiful fish even without line breeding).

« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 09:35:09 PM by lilscoots »

Offline neilsarah

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Re: Breeding question
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2013, 02:11:15 PM »
Ok. I am new to the whole breeding thing. But I'm enjoying it. What Is line breeding? I thought it was keep breeding the original father with his female offspring. Is this a bad thing to do?

Offline Regalblue

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Re: Breeding question
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2013, 07:30:29 PM »
Ok. I am new to the whole breeding thing. But I'm enjoying it. What Is line breeding? I thought it was keep breeding the original father with his female offspring. Is this a bad thing to do?
line breeding (or selective breeding ) is where you pick out specific fish (of the same species ) based on a certain trait which you want strengthen

Offline Ron

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Re: Breeding question
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2013, 07:42:24 PM »
Ok. I am new to the whole breeding thing. But I'm enjoying it. What Is line breeding? I thought it was keep breeding the original father with his female offspring. Is this a bad thing to do?
line breeding (or selective breeding ) is where you pick out specific fish (of the same species ) based on a certain trait which you want strengthen
Still operating on no sleep from bagging fish earlier today, but FWIW, line breeding is selective inbreeding. Selective breeding doesn't necessarily mean inbreeding.

When inbreeding, the more complex the organism, the less inbreeding that can be done before things go awry. For example, single-cell organisms can split themselves over and over and over without repercussion. While in humans, inbreeding is highly undesirable. Fish are in between those two extremes. Typically you can go 3-4 repetitions inbreeding cichlids before you should cross in fresh genes.

Line breeding would be breeding a pair, selecting their offspring with a trait or traits you want to encourage, breeding fish with those traits to each other or back to one of the parents, and then repeating that a few times to entrench the desired traits. When you outcross for fresh genes at some point, you'd be selecting fish that are unrelated, but also show the desired traits.

With respect to breeding in general, if you're breeding brothers/sisters together, if you start to get considerable frequency of deformities/etc, it's a sign that the time has come to get new genes involved. Personally, I try to aim at getting unrelated males and females if the opportunity allows. It might be difficult though until you're able to identify where fish originate from. For example, which private breeders practice this effort, or which import new, wild stock, or if buying from a LFS, where they get their wholesale stock from.
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Offline mightieskeeper

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Re: Breeding question
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2013, 09:02:01 PM »
Ron you are right about people inbreeding is bad but you get reality TV and people of Walmart.com
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Offline neilsarah

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Re: Breeding question
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2013, 08:20:51 AM »
Thanks for all the info. One more question. What about breeding albinos? Can non albino male/females breed with albinos and vice versa?

Offline Regalblue

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Re: Breeding question
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2013, 04:11:50 PM »
Thanks for all the info. One more question. What about breeding albinos? Can non albino male/females breed with albinos and vice versa?
Yes they can.