air pump question

[RichE]

I have a a-60 running thru 1/2' pvc and the closed loop is about 11ft x 11ft, are there are some drop that are 6-7ft.

Well as I add more tanks and box and sponge filters, I am starting to loose pressure on the longer runs.

I have a second Pump same size, If I was to install it into the loop, should I install it next to the other one, or should i install it at the opposite end?

My concern is if I put it at the other end, it would be two pumps pushing air against each other, but if I put it next to the other one, would the second pump be adding air or just running?

[PowerCerg One]

Either end would cause pressure to decrease as you approach the center, but even putting them next to each other will sacrifice some effectiveness.

[RichE]

or should I go up to 3/4" or 1" pipe?

[PowerCerg One]

increasing pipe size would actually decrease pressure unless the pipe is actually too small for the pump.

I think you will have to either increase pump size, or split the pipe into two sections.

[Regalblue]

What's the pump rated?

How many valves do you have running?

[RichE]

What's the pump rated?

How many valves do you have running?

it's a ap-60 & I have about 40 valves. It the tanks in the middle of the room the room. Also done of the tanks on the bottom rows. Maybe I can just run a few whisper 60i' s to the tanks that need some help

[Ron]

Pipe diameter is a matter of balancing pressure verses volume. Smaller piping is better for maintaining pressure, but larger piping allows more volume to pass through at the same pressure. If you're losing pressure at a particular spot, but not elsewhere, a larger pipe could help if it's a matter of volume getting through the piping to that spot.

I run 3/4" piping, originally using Jehmcos smallest linear air pump (I've since upgraded and kept the same tubing around the room). I never had a distribution problem with that piping. Depending on the lengths needed, it should be cheap to upgrade. It might not seem like much, but it'll provide over double the area within the piping (~0.4417"^2 instead of ~0.1963"^2).

FWIW, if this is more a case of the deep tanks are the only ones giving your problems, that's a problem with pressure as opposed to volume typically. You can get more out of your system if you raise the sponges up in the tanks somehow (while keeping the uplift tubes below the water line still). Putting them on top of a rock pile is how I do it. Another thing I've thought of but have yet to do is putting them on top of inverted flower pots.

[Regalblue]

What's the pump rated?

How many valves do you have running?

it's a ap-60 & I have about 40 valves. It the tanks in the middle of the room the room. Also done of the tanks on the bottom rows. Maybe I can just run a few whisper 60i' s to the tanks that need some help

my Al-60 is handling 42 valves with 79" drop without a problem.
I'm using 73' of 1/2" for piping.

[four_by_ken]

increasing pipe size would actually decrease pressure unless the pipe is actually too small for the pump.

I think you will have to either increase pump size, or split the pipe into two sections.

Increasing pipe size will not decrease pressure.  That has all to do with the pumps capability and how much draw there is on the system. 

[four_by_ken]

My concern is if I put it at the other end, it would be two pumps pushing air against each other, but if I put it next to the other one, would the second pump be adding air or just running?

Air doesnt work like that.  You will not be fighting each other.  Your best bet would be to put it nearest the spot where you are experiencing the pressure drop.

[RichE]

My concern is if I put it at the other end, it would be two pumps pushing air against each other, but if I put it next to the other one, would the second pump be adding air or just running?

Air doesnt work like that.  You will not be fighting each other.  Your best bet would be to put it nearest the spot where you are experiencing the pressure drop.

Well Right in the middle of the room I have a pipe tee'd going across the room to connect the square loop, so there is a pipe I can drill into and make drops for the 8 middle tanks.

Right now I have it capped off so its like a "dead" pipe, no air getting into it. I have regular tubing running from the outer pipe to the middle of the room to get to these tanks.

If I was to allow air to flow thru that middle pipe and make drop's from it, would that make a difference, since the air would be going thru a 1/2" pipe and then the air line drops, that should make more air getting to the middle compared to the airline tubing that I have now.

If I have to add the extra pump I will

[four_by_ken]

I dont fully understand how you have your air set up.   

Does it look like this?  If so... there WILL be air and full pressure in that middle run, even if capped.

Air does not flow like water.  Air does not need a return loop in order to "flow".

Your pressure will be the same throughout the system, unless you are pulling enough air and the line is too small to full supply all this required air.

[RichE]

I dont fully understand how you have your air set up.   

Does it look like this?  If so... there WILL be air and full pressure in that middle run, even if capped.

Air does not flow like water.  Air does not need a return loop in order to "flow".

Your pressure will be the same throughout the system, unless you are pulling enough air and the line is too small to full supply all this required air.

Like your drawing, I had a full lenght piece going across, but I took it out and put in place at both end a 2" length of pvc with a cap, so its like your drawing but just shorter and on both sides.

Where you have that piece in the middle, I have regular air line tubing on th main line going across the room to get to the middle, so If I was to take those off, and run the 1/2" across the room and make the air line drops off that, that should give me more pressure because its flowing thru 1/2" farther before the drops then the air line tubing correct?

[four_by_ken]

Ah!  Yes, you would be better off.

With just a small line,  you are starving for air.  And, it will get worse the more little lines you add... or the more lines you hook into that single line.

[RichE]

Ah!  Yes, you would be better off.

With just a small line,  you are starving for air.  And, it will get worse the more little lines you add... or the more lines you hook into that single line.

Drill here I come LOL

Anyone know what size the whole is for the typical screw in valves?