Breeding Help

[SKISWETPETS]

Sorry, I just read through this and have to chime in. When "MAN" decides to put different species of fish in a TANK and they spawn creating a hybrid... That is not NATURE. But when a fish is caught in a remote lake and is scientifically identified as a "hybrid of nature" that is a different story all together... Just my thoughts on it.

[lilscoots]

It is the same. it doesn't matter if they are in a lake or in a tank, nature decieds if they will mate and what becomes of them. MAN will deciede to keep the bloodlines pure. I do think some should remain pure but killing hybreds just because they are is stupid and it  is playing god, who knows what beautiful breed might someday come from them. Nature has made EVERY type of life on this planet from hybreds, nothing is like its first ancestor was. When I think of ridgidpurity of the species the first thing that comes to mind is Hitler and the KKK. I know this is fish but they have a right to live and evolve.

This is wrong is so many ways.....As soon as you take the fish out of the lake and into a tank, it's no longer natural (nature), the instincts of the fish (nature) will drive them to mate, but they will need to un-naturally go against their instinct to choose a mate of their species since a suitable mate is not available.  In this situation the more primitive instinct to mate must override the more recently evolved instinct to select a mate of their species.  Nature has most definitely not made every type of life on this planet from hybrids, very very very few species are a result of hybridization.  Most species are a result of geographical isolation, sexual selection (genetically based preference for some specific quality in the opposite sex), genetic drift, and/or similar selective pressure.  Hitler wasn't looking for rigid purity, he was interested in selective breeding of humans for certain qualities similar to what we do with livestock/dogs/cats, and he had a deep hatred for jews...those two things aren't connected in the way your thinking.  The "playing god" argument is not great, it has been used for almost everything: using medicine/surgery, birth control, spaying/neutering your pets, breeding livestock, killing a bug, telling your kids what to do or not do, etc.

Sorry to go off like this, but opinion and false information are different things.  I'm fine with opinions, some of them are wrong , but people are entitled to them.  Putting forth false information as truth is unacceptable.

[Regalblue]

It is the same. it doesn't matter if they are in a lake or in a tank, nature decieds if they will mate and what becomes of them. MAN will deciede to keep the bloodlines pure. I do think some should remain pure but killing hybreds just because they are is stupid and it  is playing god, who knows what beautiful breed might someday come from them. Nature has made EVERY type of life on this planet from hybreds, nothing is like its first ancestor was. When I think of ridgidpurity of the species the first thing that comes to mind is Hitler and the KKK. I know this is fish but they have a right to live and evolve.

This is wrong is so many ways.....As soon as you take the fish out of the lake and into a tank, it's no longer natural (nature), the instincts of the fish (nature) will drive them to mate, but they will need to un-naturally go against their instinct to choose a mate of their species since a suitable mate is not available.  In this situation the more primitive instinct to mate must override the more recently evolved instinct to select a mate of their species.  Nature has most definitely not made every type of life on this planet from hybrids, very very very few species are a result of hybridization.  Most species are a result of geographical isolation, sexual selection (genetically based preference for some specific quality in the opposite sex), genetic drift, and/or similar selective pressure.  Hitler wasn't looking for rigid purity, he was interested in selective breeding of humans for certain qualities similar to what we do with livestock/dogs/cats, and he had a deep hatred for jews...those two things aren't connected in the way your thinking.  The "playing god" argument is not great, it has been used for almost everything: using medicine/surgery, birth control, spaying/neutering your pets, breeding livestock, killing a bug, telling your kids what to do or not do, etc.

Sorry to go off like this, but opinion and false information are different things.  I'm fine with opinions, some of them are wrong , but people are entitled to them.  Putting forth false information as truth is unacceptable.

thank you

[NsweAandeguk]

I will disagree with a few things. First Hitler wanted RACIAL purity of the Germanic peoples or Arian peoples. Next nature has hybredized every living thing on this planet from different species, check with genetic samples and DNA  and you will find many examples of this. Do you think humans always looked like we do? how about horses, cattle, dogs, cats, ect. You need to find the facts before you start spewing misinformation. Next fish won't mix unless they have to, Please explain the Tiger Muskie along with all the so called sub species of fish in all the worlds waters all were at one time one of your Hybreds. I think some of you need to have a talk with a biologist then come back and we can talk. As for taking them from nature and putting them in tanks the lakes they live in are just very large tanks, and if you don't think they will cross breed in the wild once again talk to a biologist.

[danielratti]

I talk to bill nye all the time. Ps tiger muskies were man made hybrids...

[Regalblue]

I am newer to fish breeding and have fallen in love with Cichlids.

Your signature says it all.... but why would you want to destroy what you've "fallen in love with" ? 

Just one of those people who think you can do better than nature?

[Marty]

I'll be having the last word here.  Generally speaking, we allow civil discussion and some passionate disagreements, this is wandering off into rants and name calling.

If it's your prerogative to create hybrids, knock yourself out.  Just don't expect to not get grief here when you're going against what most of what this club stands for.  There are a number of species that are near extinction or extremely difficult to get due to warlords, lack of a functioning government, etc. so it's really not good for the hobby in general to have hybrids floating around of species that you cant necessarily identify just by looking at them (especially when they're juveniles).

A perfect example of this the "midevil."  Good luck finding a pure strain Red Devil or Midas cichlid.  Just about every one in your lfs are hybrids.