Author Topic: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?  (Read 12842 times)

Offline Crfish

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Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« on: May 13, 2013, 11:25:45 AM »
I am almost done cleaning and sealing my 75 and i was considering making a 3-d Background from scratch. Has anyone done this or does anyone think it is a bad idea(if so why?) I have seen on the internet through youtube on how to make them but im worried about the Ph getting all jacked up.

Well, this is what i have read and watched in how to do it.

Materials and tools [So far(have not purchased yet just in case I'm way off)] :
Owens Corning Foamular F-150 1 in. x 48 in. x 8 ft. Scored Squared Edge Foam $20
Quikrete 60 lb. Concrete Mix $2
Quikrete 10oz. Cement color (variety) $5-$10
5 gallon bucket $3
throw away brushes $1
Blow torch or heat gun(to melt the insulation to give nice round edges) own one already but price: $10-$40
Cutting tools: razor blades, hand saw, steak knife, machete jk but anything to cut the board into shapes of your desire $3-$20 depending on choice
Straight edge $7
Marker $0.50
Caulking gun $2
Silicone GE 1 window and door $5
(Hot glue gun optional)
$50.50-$70.50  :P  if you had to purchase all of this, which i don't
And that is all i know of right now, i could even have more then needed.

My supposed steps to take to get an awesome 3-D background once again if you find faults call me out  :)
1. Measure the inside back pane of glass of your tank
2. Cut out the Insulation board to those dimensions
3. Place cut out board in tank to gauge where you will have your filters and heaters
4. Mark the spots where the equipment will be behind the board
5. Now comes the creative part design how you want the background to look on the front of the board, make sure to leave an opening for the filter or filters and space for the heater.
6. Now cut the excess board (from step 2) into the shapes or whatever your making your tank into (If you want thing to pertrude from the bckground alot make layers to extend out towards the front of the tank)
7.Refine with cutting tools the pieces to make them look like stone or wood or whatever you are going for (If you are layering it is good to Silicone your pieces together now so that you can shape the piece as one)
8. If there is still sharp eges you can use a blow torch or heat gun(be extremely careful so that you dont melt too much of the insulation so approach with caution!)
9. Silicone (hot glue gun) your designed rocks, wood, etc to the board in proper location 
10. Wait until dried 24 hours
11. Remove or scrape away the backside where the equipment will be.
12. Mix a concrete so that it is very thin and not thick this will be your first layer
13. apply with brush or dump it on aslong as all of it is covered but try not to overload in sections all this is used for is so the thick concrete will stick to the board
13. Wait until dried 24 hours
14. the second coat should be thicker
15. Apply with a brush
16. Wait until dried 2 hours
16. The third coat should be just like the first a thinner mixture mix in the cement color (the more layers you put on the the less detail will show up)
18. Apply with brush this is when you can paint how ever you would like.
19. Wait until dried 24 hours
20. Place the finished product in tank make sure everything fits silicone it to the glass
wait 24 hours for it to adhere to the tank
21. Fill tank leave for a few hours hours
22. Empty tank
23. Repeat step 21 and 22 atleast 4 times the more the merrier
24.Fill the tank get everything running and enjoy your new 3-d Background!  :)

I know there are alot of steps but i dumbed it down alot so that anyone can do it.
If i am wrong please let me know. Thank you for reading.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 11:31:15 AM by Crfish »

Offline Steve

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Re: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2013, 03:15:52 AM »
I've built a good number of 3D backgrounds for tanks (actually doing an entire 8ft x 8ft wall right now in my new office I am building. So I can help you with some advice no problem. It's after 3am right now though so I'll get back to your questions when I get up in the morning.

Better to have a short life full of what you like doing, than a long life spent in a miserable way.

-Alan Watts

Offline Crfish

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Re: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2013, 08:40:43 AM »
I've built a good number of 3D backgrounds for tanks (actually doing an entire 8ft x 8ft wall right now in my new office I am building. So I can help you with some advice no problem. It's after 3am right now though so I'll get back to your questions when I get up in the morning.



That would be great thank you!

Offline Steve

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Re: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2013, 11:19:23 AM »
3D backgrounds to me really "make" a tank. It gives just a super realistic look and really sets your tank apart from the average tank by making it unique looking. Plus I think the fish probably like it because it gives them a more nature habitat as well as gives them more places to hide and feel more secure, I see mine sitting in the crevasse's of the background very often. Let me try to take your questions one by one here that will be the easiest way to do it...

Quote
Owens Corning Foamular F-150 1 in. x 48 in. x 8 ft. Scored Squared Edge Foam $20


Right foam, but I would suggest getting the 2" thick sheet. The 2" think one will give you the means to do a background that has more "depth" to the 3D look of it. It's easier to staret with a thicker foam and carve out(remove) foam than it is to have to add foam to make it thicker in spots where you want it to come out more.

Quote
Quikrete 60 lb. Concrete Mix $2

Ditch the cement idea. People started out using cement some years ago but now a days Drylok is a MUCH better media to use for coating the background. Some of the benefits to using Drylok are

- Drylok is does not alter your PH like cement will do

- Drylok retains the details you worked so hard to create where as cement will fill in and hide the details even with light coats

- Drylok is much cleaner and easier to use

- Drylok is lighter which makes installing easier and it does not crack the way cement will over time

There are a some other benefits to using drylok but those above will give you the main points as to why it is far superior to use than cement.

Quote
Quikrete 10oz. Cement color (variety) $5-$10

You "can" still use cement tint even with Drylok if you want, but using Fusion or any spray paints that are "plastic approved" spray paints work even better and are easier to use. As long as they are paints that are for plastic then you will have no worries about leeching any toxins with them.

Quote
5 gallon bucket $3

Wont need this if you use Drylok

Quote
throw away brushes $1

Yep get around 5-6 brushes. One or two 2" wide for applying Drylok, then a few 1" wide ones for "dry brushing" the shading colors onto the background.

Quote
Blow torch or heat gun(to melt the insulation to give nice round edges) own one already but price: $10-$40

You can use a torch but a heat gun works best if you happen to own one.

Quote
Cutting tools: razor blades, hand saw, steak knife, machete jk but anything to cut the board into shapes of your desire $3-$20 depending on choice

Pretty much anything you have on hand works. I personally use a flat screwdriver, hacksaw, and drywall scraper myself and it works perfectly with just those three items.

Quote
Straight edge $7

Yard stick, piece of 2x4, pretty much anything with an edge works for cutting the background to size.

Quote
Caulking gun $2
Silicone GE 1 window and door $5

Yes make sure to double check that you are getting the GE silicone I "window door attic" clear silicone. Because the others such as GE silicone 2, and the basement and plumbing GE versions contain mildewcide and will kill your fish. Ge Silicone I is actually the exact same think that is sold in pet shops as "Aquarium safe sealant" so make sure to get the proper one.

Quote
(Hot glue gun optional)

No need for that, the silicone will act as glue for anything you need in this project and is 100% fish safe unlike some glues.

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The process for doing it are as follows...

1- Cut the background to fit in the tank. Don't forget to allow enough room to fit in between the tanks braces on top. This may means either removing the braces and reinstalling them, or simply making the background to fit together in sections once in the tank. Plan this out ahead of time to save yourself some major headaches.

2- start carving out your background. I find a basic idea of what I want mine to look like is much better than coming up with something that I try to stick to hard and fast for the look. In other words don't be scared to change something on the fly and go with the flow. Just have a basic idea of what you want and have fun with it.

3- once you have it carved how you like then test fit it together in the tank. Easier to alter something now than once it is all coated and done

4- Apply the Drylok. I use three coats to make sure it is nice and evenly covered and I usually give it about 24 hrs between coats because it does take some time to dry.

5- Once the BG is coated in Drylok then start doing your shading work. If your are not familiar with a technique called "dry brushing" then Google it and see how it is done. The best way to add your shading colors is to spray the paint from the can onto a small plastic cup (just covering the bottom of the cup) then dip the brush in and then wipe the brush on a paper plate, then drybrush onto the back ground. It takes some practice but you will get the hang of it quickly. I also like to "smash" the brush bristols down on the table before I dry brush to give the brush more of a spread out flare effect which helps.

6- After the background is shaded with your shading colors then do the same dry brushing with some white fusion paint only going over the high spots on the background. That gives it the look of real rocks that have been worn down a bit on the edges and adds a nice natural look.

7- test fit it all again because your next step is to silicone it in the tank so now is the time to double check and triple check it fits right.

8- Coat the back side of it (backside should be unpainted/not dryloked just bare foam) coat the back side of it with GE Silicone I. To give you and idea of how much to use, it takes about 1.5-2 tubes for a 55g 4ft wide background. You don't want it coming lose so use a lot of it. After it's in then use clamps, pieces of wood wedged into the tank between the glass and BG, or anything you can to hold it firm in the tank and let it dry for at least 12 hrs before removing.

9- Let it sit for a minimum of 3 days (week is even better) so that the silicone and paints all are 100% off-gassed.

10- after waiting 3-7 days now fill it with water and drain it 2-3 times. That will help remove any particles that may be in the edges of the background or in the tank to keep them from floating around.

Now you are ready to cycle and add fish when it is cycled.

That's how I do all mine. I've done about 5-6 of them so far and currently working on a huge one for my office. Hopefully you will find the above info helpful and don;t be afraid to ask any questions you may have along the way.












Better to have a short life full of what you like doing, than a long life spent in a miserable way.

-Alan Watts

Offline Crfish

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Re: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2013, 11:33:21 AM »
Perfect only question is what bout filters and and heaters in your experience what should i do have them showing or hide or what?
But that is exactly what i was looking for! thank you Steve

Offline Steve

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Re: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2013, 11:39:36 AM »
Depends on what filters and heaters you have as well as what size tank you are doing this on. With a larger tank you can hide the equipment behind the background, but  with smaller or tanks that have less floor space that may not be an option because you can end up taking up too much room in the tank. If you don't have room to hide the equipment behind the BG then you can always paint the intake tube and the equipment itself so that it blends in better with the background if you paint it the same color.

On mine I like to use canister filters so it is much easier to hide the intake tube built right into the background, then the spraybar is not very obvious if you put it just under the waterline. I also use Hydor inline heaters on my canisters so that way the heater is out of the tank and in the stand so that makes things easier that way.
Better to have a short life full of what you like doing, than a long life spent in a miserable way.

-Alan Watts

Offline Crfish

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Re: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2013, 01:06:03 PM »
so with a submersible heater should I keep an opening or just put it by the filter intake? Maybe in the future ill get that inline filter btw a FLUVAL 304 and a AC30 good enough for a 75 or should i fix a FLUVAL 204 and hook it up with them?
 

Offline Steve

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Re: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2013, 03:43:44 PM »
I would keep an opening for the heater if you hide it behind the background. I've done them before with the heater in the tank behind the BG and you really have to crank the heater up to get the water outside the BG to the temp you want unless you have an opening for the heater. Just make sure to use some sort of screen over the opening so that fish don't go through it and get stuck in the heater opening/area.

I'm sure you will get various opinions on filtration but personally I like to try to "turn the tank over" about 6-8 times per hour or more with the flow rate. On each of my 55g tanks I have a pair of Rena XP3 and XP4 on each tank. So I get around 800gph flow rate on each 55g tank. With the Fluval 304 and AC30 you are gonna be somewhere around 300gph rated flow on your 75. I would probably see about selling both those and just getting a bigger single filter with more flow rather than try to add a bunch of small filters to a 75g tank because it will be easier to maintain as well as easier to not have to try to incorporate all those intakes and returns from all those filters into your background.. Just my .02 though for what it's worth.
Better to have a short life full of what you like doing, than a long life spent in a miserable way.

-Alan Watts

Offline Crfish

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Re: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2013, 03:48:24 PM »
alright perfect that was of my big concerns thank you!

Offline lilscoots

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Re: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2013, 04:34:01 PM »
Thanks for all that info, I haven't built a background ever but I do like how some of them look...I'm a little scared that mine will look like crap if I do ever attempt it.

Offline Steve

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Re: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2013, 07:44:55 PM »
Thanks for all that info, I haven't built a background ever but I do like how some of them look...I'm a little scared that mine will look like crap if I do ever attempt it.

Give it a try I bet you surprise yourself, it's not all that hard. Just go into it ready to change on the fly and adapt to what the foam does and you'll come up with something that is pretty cool looking.
Better to have a short life full of what you like doing, than a long life spent in a miserable way.

-Alan Watts

Offline Crfish

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Re: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2013, 04:30:17 PM »
What if I was to use a sponge filter is it possible to hide it or does the whole spong have to be showing? As of right now i Only have 1 AC 110 and I wanted more filtration.

Offline jrhodo

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Re: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2013, 06:07:16 PM »
I followed Steve's instructions. The background turned out pretty good. The hardest part is getting it to match the rocks when they are wet. Wish I could have set up the rockwork first. BTW all the rocks are fossils we collected.

Offline LoveTheFishies

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Re: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2013, 07:30:42 PM »
Looks great.  Are your heaters working ok being behind the background?

Offline Steve

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Re: Any experience with 3-D backgrounds?
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2013, 07:38:03 PM »
Nice job, very natural looking 8)
Better to have a short life full of what you like doing, than a long life spent in a miserable way.

-Alan Watts