Author Topic: Need Info on Overflow Box and Sump  (Read 3236 times)

Offline PaulineMi

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Need Info on Overflow Box and Sump
« on: March 22, 2013, 10:09:02 AM »
Other than reading enough to get kind of confused I'm clueless regarding a sump/overflow box. First, I'm not drilling my tank, second, no DIY talent here.

That being said what I need is a higher volume of water for my 90 gallon tank. I think that can be accomplished by running water through a tank below my 90 (I have a spare 55) utilizing a "hang on" overflow box.

Since that's the extent of my knowledge can I get some input regarding what I need to consider to do this? Can it be as simple as water overflows into the box, runs down into the tank below, then the pump runs water back up into the tank?

How do i prevent flooding with incorrect water levels and do I need media in the 55 under the main tank?

I was "gifted" some extra discus with my recent order and now have 10 of them. I was planning on eight for the 90. I'm thinking I can increase my fresh water for them this way.

Offline 54zamboni

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Re: Need Info on Overflow Box and Sump
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2013, 10:45:59 AM »
You are correct -- it is that simple:  water flows into the overflow box and down, thru filter material and/or bioballs/pot scrubbers into the sump, where the pump returns it to the main tank.  things to watch out for:  when the power goes out, water will continue to drain thru the overflow box until the water level in the tank is below the openings on the box.  if the sump isn't large enough, it will overflow the sump, since the pump won't be pumping, and you have a mess.  when first setting up the system, figure out how much water will flow after the pump is off, and mark a line on the sump to be your "max. fill" line.  this the line that even if your power goes out, the amount of water that will drain into the sump won't be enough to overflow the sump all over your floor.  one nice thing about using a sump is as water evaporates, its the water level in the sump that will go down, not the main tank -- that will remain constant  until your pump shuts off.  for water changes, add water to the main tank until it overflows into the sump and up to the max. fill line and you're good.

on the return line from the sump to the tank, make sure you  put a small hole in the return line if the outlet is below the water level -- some put it just below the water level in the main tank, i put mine just above the water level.  this hole is extremely important!  don't ask me how i know!  when your power goes out, the return line, without the hole, will reverse siphon into the sump as well.  it isn't pretty! 

to start the siphon on your overflow, insert a piece of air tubing into the siphon tube while its in position in the overflow box and suck -- once started, the siphon will be maintained even if your power goes out. 

for media, i use bioballs and pot scrubbers -- very efficient.  they are in a container in the sump -- i put the bottom of that container slightly below the water level in the sump to minimize water noise. the container actually sits on pieces of pvc in lenghts that i cut put it at the right height.   the majority of the bioballs/scrubbers are above the water level in the sump.  the hose from the overflow box empties into a diffuser tray with many smalll holes, which drips the water somewhat evenly over the entire surface.  i also use a filter mat in that diffuser tray. 

if you used a 55g for the sump, you can probably utilize up to about 35-40g's as a max. level, depending the level of your overflow box in the main tank,  so you would be increasing your water volume by that amount.  just my opinion, but once you use sumps you won't want to be without them.   

Offline RichE

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Re: Need Info on Overflow Box and Sump
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2013, 10:50:51 AM »
From what I have been told,its like learning to drive a stick shift. The pressure you take off the clutch, you apply to the gas.

So when you have water flowing out of the 90 gallon thru a over flow box into the 55,you have to adjust your return line that's hooked up to a pump, the best way and easiest way is to put a valve aka (shutoff valve,ball cock valve) in the return line going back into the 90 gallon. If too much water is going back in you can adjust the flow.Some people will even put one of these valves on the intake line to slow the rate of water coming into your sump(55 gallon tank)

So what comes out, has to go back in around the same rate. Once you get ready to run it have a lot of towels around in case you get the flow to high ;D

Good Luck
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Offline four_by_ken

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Re: Need Info on Overflow Box and Sump
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2013, 10:54:20 AM »
To be safe, be certain your return line can flow more water than your pump can provide.

Offline PaulineMi

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Re: Need Info on Overflow Box and Sump
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2013, 12:35:37 PM »
Thank you for your thorough replies.  It helps a lot.

Offline mightieskeeper

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Re: Need Info on Overflow Box and Sump
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2013, 06:02:58 PM »
Hey Pauline for the amount of money to buy a sump, overflow, return pump, and plumbing.  Why not buy a new fluval canister or Ehiem to add to your filtration?   Here is some cons of having a sump is water evaporation, moisture in your stand, hang on the back overflow not starting siphon after power outage, pump running dry.   
I have had a bunch of different sumps setups.  If you were going to drill your tank or had a drill tank, I would do a wet/dry.  You would gain water volume and have a place to put your heater but is that worth the cons of it?  I'm not trying to kill your idea just want you to see all sides of wet/dry or sump style filtration. 
My new project I'm trying to solve the issue of evaporation using a wet/dry.
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Offline PaulineMi

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Re: Need Info on Overflow Box and Sump
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2013, 07:34:17 PM »
I understand what you are saying and appreciate it. However I don't want to set this 55 up for filtration....just extra water for an overstocked tank.  10 discus in a 90 gallon, not necessarily by choice.

I have an HMF (Hamburg Mattenfilter) and an HOB filter in each of the two fish tanks.  I bought a 55 during the last Petco sale.  Then when 4 discus turned into 6, then 8, I picked up a 90 a few weeks ago and had a stand built for it.  Now that I have 10 discus plus a 90 and a 55 gallon tank I figured I could put both tanks to use for extra water.

I'm retired and am in the fish room a lot. Topping off the tanks isn't a problem for me. The stand is open so I don't think, hopefully, that moisture will be a problem?? The power outage causing the pump to run dry....that I'll have to think about. I'd assume the heater would be at risk also. Speaking of heaters....do the sump and the main tank require heaters? Will all that moving water maintain the heat levels I need for discus?

Thanks for the "food for thought".

Offline danielratti

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Re: Need Info on Overflow Box and Sump
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2013, 07:59:13 PM »
If you get a good hob overflow they generally will not loose a prime when power is lost. There are a ton of options out there for doing a wet/dry. It is a lot easier than you think it is also. I have a 55 on my 180 and I have to add water maybe once a week. They other thing is add ball and gate valves to control the amount of water you have coming or going to the wet/dry.

Offline PaulineMi

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Re: Need Info on Overflow Box and Sump
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2013, 09:00:31 PM »
Thanks!  I was looking at Eshopps overflow boxes. I'm glad to hear there are overflows that won't loose their prime. I'll check that out.

Offline danielratti

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Re: Need Info on Overflow Box and Sump
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2013, 10:32:39 PM »
I forget the ones we use but I will look tomorrow at work. They are simple all they are is a u tube and the 2 boxes really easy to set up and tune to your likeing.

Offline mightieskeeper

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Re: Need Info on Overflow Box and Sump
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2013, 11:32:07 AM »
Pauline the best overflow for a 90 would be a dual overflow 1000 to 1200 gph.  The overflow that has a lift pump on it works good.  The lift pump helps restart siphon, if power outage.  If you are a diy'er you can build 2 bio ball towers to fit your 55 gallon sump.  Yellow square kitty litter buckets work great to make bio ball towers from.  Drill the bottom with small holes and the top for your overflow pipe to go in to.  Ebay has alot of nicely built acrylic bio ball towers to put in your sump.  I would use a mag 9.5 return pump.  Make sure when you bring your return pipe up over the back of your tank, you have a small hole for a siphon brake.  I failed on that my first wet/dry I had.  10 gallons of water on the floor was a good way to learn about siphon brakes. lol   Being the tank is used for discus, I would build a spray bar for your return pipe.  It will be a little more even flow then just dumping the return into the tank.
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Offline PaulineMi

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Re: Need Info on Overflow Box and Sump
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2013, 02:57:33 PM »
  Being the tank is used for discus, I would build a spray bar for your return pipe.  It will be a little more even flow then just dumping the return into the tank.

The spray bar suggestion is something I'll look into for sure.  Thanks.