Fish Bagging

[PowerCerg One]

I have always been the type of guy who hurries home from the fish store to get the fish into the tank as soon as possible, although I'm not stupd enough to skip acclimation. Since I have joined this forum and the MCA, I have noticed people being far less urgent about such things.

I guess I would like to know exactly how sensitive the fish really are, and how long you can leave them bagged and such. I am mostly curious because the auction sounds like it will take all day, and when I get home it will likely be two hours or more after the end.

[danielratti]

Depends on how they are bagged. If you use pure oxygen they are good for up to 12 hours if the tempeture doesn't jump up or down a lot.

[JeffroM]

I recall someone telling me about an overnight shipment of fish that was lost by FedEx and arrived 7 days after it was shipped.  All the fish where still alive - obviously this would not be the norm.

If the fish are bagged properly you should not worry at all about bringing fish home from the auction.  I would certainly get them into tanks that night but I wouldn't rush home either.

[Regalblue]

Longest I've kept a fish in a bag is 2days. It was a L-191&  is still alive 3yrs later

[GrizzlysDad]

I recall someone telling me about an overnight shipment of fish that was lost by FedEx and arrived 7 days after it was shipped.  All the fish where still alive - obviously this would not be the norm.

If the fish are bagged properly you should not worry at all about bringing fish home from the auction.  I would certainly get them into tanks that night but I wouldn't rush home either.

That would be a shipment I sent many years ago. And it's true...they sent a box of fish I was sending to a customer in Florida to somewhere in Georgia or Alabama....I can't recall. They finally delivered it to the buyer on the 7th day and all the fish were fine, even long term. The person was a return customer...I guess he figured if my fish could not only last for 7 days in bags, and then live happily in his tank for years, then it was a safe bet to buy more from me.

As for any fish I ever get, whether it's a shipment or a quick trip from another hobbyist, I always get the fish out of the bags immediately. No acclimation, no bag water in the tank, just the fish.

Another thing I'd like to point out is the club has bags at the auction in case there is the need for a rebag. I also bring my full bagging kit with oxygen tank and have offered to bag people's fish properly if the need arises.

[PowerCerg One]

I like how I misspelled stupid. Hah. But you don't acclimate at all? Sorry if I offended you, I always thought it was imperative to acclimate.

I was considering dropping by FF before Friday's meeting, but I'm getting a hotel in the city so I don't have to drive both ways.

[GrizzlysDad]

I like how I misspelled stupid. Hah. But you don't acclimate at all? Sorry if I offended you, I always thought it was imperative to acclimate.

I was considering dropping by FF before Friday's meeting, but I'm getting a hotel in the city so I don't have to drive both ways.

Oh no offense taken...I didn't read it that way at all and I hope my comments didn't come across as defensive.
And no, I never acclimate fish with the old slow method....that I learned long ago from wholesalers and import/export business contacts.
It's too bad you weren't able to attend the MCAS talk given by Peter Durkin...he explained why it's best to get them out of the bag water asap.
To give a simple quick explanation, the waste the fish produce in the bag is "locked" when the bags are sealed. As soon as you expose the bag water to open air, and worse when you add tank water, it releases the ammonia and the water has basically now become toxic.
The only way I "acclimate" on a very rare instance would be if the water temps between the bag and the tank are drastically different. In that case I would just float the sealed bags in the tank, and even then, it would usually only happen if the tank water was cooler than the bag water.
Hope this helps.

[danielratti]

Acclimating is important with saltwater due to the different specific gravity of the water along with the alkalinity and calcium. Some people acclimate for fresh to just get them use to temp and some water that fish require a lower ph. If I have a fish that's been in the cooler air long enough to lower the water temp I will float the fish and even sometimes do a drip but it is not always necessary.

[GrizzlysDad]

Acclimating is important with saltwater due to the different specific gravity of the water along with the alkalinity and calcium. Some people acclimate for fresh to just get them use to temp and some water that fish require a lower ph. If I have a fish that's been in the cooler air long enough to lower the water temp I will float the fish and even sometimes do a drip but it is not always necessary.

I was speaking strictly on fresh water but I would think the ammonia chemistry would be the same or similarly toxic in SW.
Agreed, the SW parameters, and SW fish in general are more of a delicate balance.
As for ph differences on FW fish, it's always better to chance some ph distress (which they recover from quickly) rather than keeping them in water that is immediately going to start burning gills and fins. If you slow-acclimate FW fish using the drip method, or any variation thereof, you might as well urinate right in the bags yourself.
Now, just taking a fish home from your local fish store where they are in the bag for 1/2 hour or so, they obviously wouldn't put off as much waste as being shipped long distance...or sitting on an auction table all day.
Also, I'm not just stating an off the wall opinion of my own making. This knowledge comes from importing and shipping fish all over the country for many years and talking at great length to my suppliers and colleagues in the business. These people do this for a living so it's over many years of experience that these methods have been figured out.
Any exporter, or fish seller that directs a buyer to slow acclimate their FW fish the old fashioned way simply does not understand chemistry.
It's a similar situation with sellers that aren't educated and tells you they ship all their fish in pure oxygen. Certain types of fish should never be bagged with pure oxygen. Plecostomus species for example...they can get internal organ damage when shipped in pure oxygen. They will almost always die in a short time.

BTW, I sincerely hope this isn't coming across as argumentative because it is not my intention at all. It's only meant as educational and the passing on of my experience in the mentioned subject.

[railman4000]

That's what I do. Delores says the same thing.

[GrizzlysDad]

That's what I do. Delores says the same thing.

What, urinate in the bags? 

J/K...Delores and I have talked extensively on the matter of getting fish out of their shipping water immediately and we are in total agreement.

[PowerCerg One]

Thanks for the knowledge! I appreciate it. I'm disappointed because I have always done that, but I am glad that I know now. I think I may have killed a few fish over the years... I guess I better keep my pants zipped. Just kidding, I meant the acclimation thing. lol

[GrizzlysDad]

Thanks for the knowledge! I appreciate it. I'm disappointed because I have always done that, but I am glad that I know now. I think I may have killed a few fish over the years... I guess I better keep my pants zipped. Just kidding, I meant the acclimation thing. lol

 

[Ron]

To give a simple quick explanation, the waste the fish produce in the bag is "locked" when the bags are sealed. As soon as you expose the bag water to open air, and worse when you add tank water, it releases the ammonia and the water has basically now become toxic.

Just to add to the above, the buildup of ammonia drives the pH lower. Ammonia is less toxic to fish the lower the pH (but still toxic). If you acclimate by adding water to the bag, your presumably adding water that is of a higher pH, which then greatly increases the toxicity of the ammonia present in the bag. That's the root problem - the pH increase.

I acclimate for temperature only, then release the fish immediately into the tank water afterwards. I really don't want someone else's tank water in mine anyways.

For fish to last a long time in a bag, it's best if they are fasted ahead of time. I always try to fast mine for 20-24 hours if possible before bagging them to sell. This limits the waste (ammonia) produced in the bag.

Bags should also be 1/3 to at most 1/2 water and the remainder air. The only exception would be "breather bags".

Fish bagged with O2 are usually in really good shape. Ammonia/nitrite sponges in bags are also a positive IMO, but not always necessary. A conditioner can also help, especially larger fish IMO, but beware the fish may look drunk for a little bit after being released before the meds wear off.

[railman4000]

Only the ones u buy Tony. What about the theory that floating a closed bag in the tank draws the air from the bag into the tank water.