Im confused about nitrates

[dm3475]

There are so many opinions about worrying and not worrying about nitrates I do not know which way to go on this can someone help me?

[Ron]

Ammonia --> Nitrite --> Nitrate ... water changes.

In theory ammonia is nearly 0 in a cycled tank, but there are various factors that can cause it to rise. However, in a cycled tank the rates should diminish in a short time back to nearly 0.

In theory nitrite is nearly 0 in a cycled tank, but there are various factors that can cause it to rise. However, in a cycled tank the rates should diminish in a short time back to nearly 0.

Nitrate is the final product and a large part of the reason you need to do water changes. Water changes dilute nitrate levels.

How fast is nitrate produced? It depends on the bioload (AKA how much fish waste and non-eaten food is being produced in your tank).

Do I worry about what the exact nitrate level is? No, I worry about water changes.

So what specifically is most confusing? How often to do water changes?
If not, asking a more specific question might lead to a better answer.

[linuxrulesusa]

Ammonia --> Nitrite --> Nitrate ... water changes.

In theory ammonia is nearly 0 in a cycled tank, but there are various factors that can cause it to rise. However, in a cycled tank the rates should diminish in a short time back to nearly 0.

In theory nitrite is nearly 0 in a cycled tank, but there are various factors that can cause it to rise. However, in a cycled tank the rates should diminish in a short time back to nearly 0.

Nitrate is the final product and a large part of the reason you need to do water changes. Water changes dilute nitrate levels.

How fast is nitrate produced? It depends on the bioload (AKA how much fish waste and non-eaten food is being produced in your tank).

Do I worry about what the exact nitrate level is? No, I worry about water changes.

So what specifically is most confusing? How often to do water changes?
If not, asking a more specific question might lead to a better answer.

What nitrate level do you shoot for as the max?  20?  40?  I'm assuming not higher than that.

[Stan M.]

Well said, Ron

[Ron]

What nitrate level do you shoot for as the max?  20?  40?  I'm assuming not higher than that.

I've never owned a test kit for nitrate, so I can't really answer the question based on personal experience. I'm sure googling would give some idea of what is a safe level and what is not.

How large or often of a water change depends on the species and the stocking rate for my personal tanks. On average I shoot for 50% every 2 weeks for my africans, with slightly more frequency for more demanding species (tropheus) and slightly smaller changes for more sensitive species (ex: Cyprichromis, Xenos I've kept, etc), but I also don't overstock the more sensitive species.

Something to keep in mind too, is that sometimes more frequent, smaller changes don't equate to a larger change on a lesser frequency. For example, I shoot for 50% every 2 weeks, but if I did 25% every week, it's equivalent to changing ~43.75% of the initial water volume every 2 weeks (1-(1*(1-.25))*(1-.25)).

Well said, Ron

Thanks, but would welcome others to post their views or experiences too. 

[Michael Zebrowski]

Keep in mind that fish only require sufficient food to fuel metabolism, growth, and breeding.  Food that exceeds these needs gets excreted as additional metabolic waste, driving the need for more frequent water changes.

In the wild, cichlids are smaller and more slender than those in captivity due to limited resources.

It takes time and experience to achieve the right balance of food/growth/breeding/water quality/water changes.

I, however, will always err on the side of more frequent than less frequent regarding water changes.  50% every other week is typical for my tanks, even though once a month would be sufficient.

It really depends on what you keep, how many, tank size, and feeding regimen.

[Maize-N-Blue-D]

Next logical questions then,  if you only do a 50% water change every two weeks,   how often do you add salt and / or how often do you vacuum the gravel ?  Plus how often to you clean out your filter, plus when cleaning out your filter what is the best way to do this ?

[Steve]

As others mentioned already I think it really depends a lot of types of fish, fish size, filtration, feeding amount, as well as amount of rock work and such. I'm far from an expert but I'll just say what I do based on the test numbers I get from weekly testing. I actually don't test weekly anymore now, but I did for the first couple months just to see what affects the PWC's made on the numbers. I try to keep my Nitrate between 10-20ppm and when it hits 20ppm that's when I do a PWC. Reason I choose 20ppm is because that seems to be the number that is where most things you see/hear/read/online say is where you should try to not go much over so that's the number I decided to stick with. I'm sure there's many people letting them get over that number with no ill effects, but PWC's are pretty easy to do and doing it too often certainly won't hurt anything so I like to err on the side of caution.

My schedule for all 3 of my tanks are 25% PWC and light surface sand vac'ing every 4 days. Major cleaning (removing rocks to clean under them and deep cleaning sand once every 3 weeks). That keeps my Nitrates at about 10ppm all the time. I could actually go longer on my peacock tank and my beta/cory cat tank with the Nitrates staying low, but the Mubana tank has larger fish 6" in it, plus with so many rocks the waste gets under odd shaped rocks and if I don;t stay on top of PWC's in that tank they get over 20ppm in a weeks time. So I just do all my tanks every 4 days to not have to worry about them.

That's my schedule, probably a bit overkill but like I said I like to err on the side of caution just to be safe. That way if/when something goes wrong with a fish at least I know I did everything I could to prevent it.

[four_by_ken]

I do about 1/3 of a tank once a week.  I vacuum the gravel every time.  Everything seems to be happy.

[dm3475]

I was told by my LFS that nitrates does not matter they could be 200ppm and it does not matter that is why im confused. I do weekly water changes about 35-50 percent on my 150 and 50 percent every other week on my two smaller tanks

[Steve]

Again I'm far from an expert so maybe one of the other more experienced guys can answer this better for you than I can, but if I'm not mistaken Nitrates are just "less toxic" to fish, but by no means harmless. So too high a level will cause health issues so that is the reason for PWC to remove Nitrates before they get to harmful levels. So I would disagree with the LFS guy when he says they don't matter. But again, I'll defer to one of the more exp guys here though.

[Marty]

As it's been stated above, there are a multitude of factors involved in making a decision about how often and how much when it comes to water changes to reduce nitrates.  It basically comes down a a judgment call based on each tank.

I'm not proud to admit this, but I have tanks that I haven't water changed for almost two months.  They aren't heavily stocked, and I still have fish spawning.  Is this optimum?  Of course not, but the fish are still healthy.  I just have to be careful when I do change the water in those tanks to not do too much at once so I don't stress the fish even more by changing my water parameters too drastically. 

Another thing I do that most people don't do is I typically only feed my fish every other day.  My fry don't grow as fast, but I'm not trying to run a huge breeding operation where it's important for me to grow fry as fast as possible to get them to a sell size.

For those of you that are a little newer to the hobby, I would make the recommendation that you don't vacuum more than half of your gravel at a time.  Quite a bit of beneficial bacteria grows on your substrate, and if you're vacuuming the whole tank you're risking destroying a significant amount of it.

[Steve]

For those of you that are a little newer to the hobby, I would make the recommendation that you don't vacuum more than half of your gravel at a time.  Quite a bit of beneficial bacteria grows on your substrate, and if you're vacuuming the whole tank you're risking destroying a significant amount of it.

Stuff like that is good to know for guys like me. See I have always heard that most of the good bacteria resides in the filter media, like 75% media, 20% substrate and maybe 5% in the water. Is that accurate numbers do you think Ron, or if so then is even messing with 20% of the bacteria not good to do? One reason I ask is because in my Peacock tank when I set it up I mixed white and tan sand together, and now I don;t like the looks of it (the tan doesn't have the effect I was after and just makes it look dirty when it is not) so I was planning on switching to all white sand soon. Am I gonna screw up my cycle in that tank if I do that now?

[bob terp]

Most of the time I am asking questions but I do have some experience with this one.I have found that with most of my tanks 75 gal and higher I change 50% every 7-11 days.(keeping nitrates 20 or lower) I am running 1-2 Emperors and a Aqua clear on each tank at 8x per gal. My nitrates vary on how clean the gravel and filter media is. I would suggest keeping track of when each is cleaned and read nitrates each week before the w/c to see if it needs to be done  at 7 days or 10-14. In other words on some tanks because of the type of food and weekly rinsing the filter media my nitrates are low but on other tanks that are fully stocked and messy food and less frequent filter media cleaning I, must change that water every 7 days or less. So in other words there are tons of variables only you can anwser,hope this makes sense and helps you out.

[four_by_ken]

I find it easier to just get a schedule and stick to it with water changes.  Tuesdays are fish days at my house... water changes.  Easy to stay consistent that way and not have to test all the time.