Air,Pump&Sponge,Help

[bob terp]

I would appreciate some help on what rated ATI sponges people run in their tanks. These will be mainly fry tanks and will be overcrowded. For example if the sponge is rated for 40 gallon, I would assume that you would run at least 2 of them on a 40 gallon tank. Or should I run more or larger than that to be safe. I understand I will have to do water tests but I would just as soon not buy the wronge size sponges and then have to buy more. One other question is on pumps, I'm trying to keep the wattage down and Supreme AP-20 runs about 27 LPM not sure of the PSI or should I go larger fo say maybe 20 lines at good pressure. I sure would be grateful for some help on this from those in the know. I'm pulling my hair out on this (and I'm already bald)  I have have spent 20-30 hours researching and trying to find some reliable info but there's not much out there.Thank You, Bob

[linuxrulesusa]

I would appreciate some help on what rated ATI sponges people run in their tanks. These will be mainly fry tanks and will be overcrowded. For example if the sponge is rated for 40 gallon, I would assume that you would run at least 2 of them on a 40 gallon tank. Or should I run more or larger than that to be safe. I understand I will have to do water tests but I would just as soon not buy the wronge size sponges and then have to buy more. One other question is on pumps, I'm trying to keep the wattage down and Supreme AP-20 runs about 27 LPM not sure of the PSI or should I go larger fo say maybe 20 lines at good pressure. I sure would be grateful for some help on this from those in the know. I'm pulling my hair out on this (and I'm already bald)  I have have spent 20-30 hours researching and trying to find some reliable info but there's not much out there.Thank You, Bob

I've been using the corner blue triangle ones in my 10 gallon fry tanks with no issues (15-30 fry, currently about 1/2" but I've had up to 1" in there).  That said, I plan to upgrade and put some Hydro IIIs in there shortly...I've upgraded all my bigger tanks (40 gallons +) to Hydro IVs and Vs.  I have Hydro IV/Vs in my 40s up to 85s plus a HOB on each, so the sponge serves for bio and the HOB for circulation plus cleaning out some of the waste.  My smaller tanks with plecos I have Aquaclears plus ceramic media for bio, because of the waste output.  And then just a sponge filter in the fry tanks.

There's not much cost difference between the smallest and largest sponge filters, so I'd go bigger unless it won't physically fit, and then you can always reuse them in a different tank later.

Sorry, can't help on the air pumps.

[bob terp]

Thanks for the reply linuxrulesusa, now you've got me thinkin. Should I buy a bigger pump and do like you, running sponges and back filters in some of my other tanks. I have my fry tanks in an adjoining room but could easily run air line through the wall to a few other tanks in my finished  fish room and ellimenate(sp) some of the HOB filters.  The finished room has 4-75's, 3-125's, 2-50's and 2-40's in it. I bought a watt meter and the HOB's run 7-10 watts each, so there may not be very much savings. I have 3 filters on the 125's , 2 on the 75's and 1 on the 40's and 50's. The next question does the largest sponge compare to a 300 gph a/c or emperor in either biological,mechanical filtration or both? I know most people run cannisters it seems but I have had no trouble water quality wise with 8-10x gph HOB filters and don't want that to change. Sorry to go on and on about this but I have bought to much equipment in the past only to replace it later.

[linuxrulesusa]

Thanks for the reply linuxrulesusa, now you've got me thinkin. Should I buy a bigger pump and do like you, running sponges and back filters in some of my other tanks. I have my fry tanks in an adjoining room but could easily run air line through the wall to a few other tanks in my finished  fish room and ellimenate(sp) some of the HOB filters.  The finished room has 4-75's, 3-125's, 2-50's and 2-40's in it. I bought a watt meter and the HOB's run 7-10 watts each, so there may not be very much savings. I have 3 filters on the 125's , 2 on the 75's and 1 on the 40's and 50's. The next question does the largest sponge compare to a 300 gph a/c or emperor in either biological,mechanical filtration or both? I know most people run cannisters it seems but I have had no trouble water quality wise with 8-10x gph HOB filters and don't want that to change. Sorry to go on and on about this but I have bought to much equipment in the past only to replace it later.

I only do the HOBs so I don't have to vac fish poop out of the tank every other day.  I could get by with the sponges.  Sponges = bio mostly.  Some waste as well but nothing like a HOB or canister.  Depending on how powerful the air pump is, really.

The advantage of a canister is just space.  You have more room for more media = more absorption of waste and more pores for good bacteria to grow.  Downside is cleaning them, which I've heard can be a huge pain - never used them myself.

A sponge is better than a HOB at bio (except maybe an Aquaclear) for the same reason as a canister - more space for good bacteria to grow.  If you want just a HOB, I'd upgrade to an AquaClear 70 or 110 (though 110 has almost double the space to put media in).  If you want a cheaper route, add sponges - say $15 each if you buy new or even cheaper if you buy online, in bulk, or used sponges like at an auction.  I've gotten Hydro IVs/Vs for $3-5 each sometimes.

I would skip the HOBs on fry tanks so you don't have to worry about them getting sucked up as well as since you'll be doing water changes more regularly on those anyway, so you can vac up the waste then. 

HOBs definitely use more power - I can run two tanks with Hydro IVs off a 4w air pump (all mine are scattered around the basement so a closed air loop and/or linear piston pump doesn't work for my case).  Compared to that, a 14W AquaClear 110 looks downright wasteful.  Even so, heaters are what kill you on electricity costs.  Heaters are probably 2/3 - 3/4 of  your electrical usage for running the tank. 

[bob terp]

I appreciated the one response. Hoped for more from fellow Michiganders. I found the info I needed elsewhere.Thanks anyway.

[runawaypencil]

I run sponge filters on everything,  On my huge tanks 90+ gallons I will run a small canister filter or I have one canister filter that I rotate around 4 big tanks,  It cleans up the waste in the tank every couple days.  Other wise I always over sponge filter the snot out of my tanks.  The reason for double or triple the sponge filter is if you clean some it doesn't disrupt the cycle on the tank and I way over load my tanks.  If its any kind of a show tank I don't use any sponge filter and either use ac110 or canisters.   If its a show tank the sponge in a corner is not ascetically pleasing but you pay more in electrical for the better filters I have a 110 piston pump $75 pushes 110 liters of air and can run 2000+gallons off of it a singe AC 110 =14watts  so 8 Ac110's are more electric then the piston not to mention the upfront cost is much much less.  Also your way better off heating the room then heating the tanks.  Zone heat the room or use your register dampers and adjust the house appropriate.

[Ron]

I appreciated the one response. Hoped for more from fellow Michiganders. I found the info I needed elsewhere.Thanks anyway.

Passive aggressive comments will certainly make more people want to respond to your thread. 

[bob terp]

Runawaypencil,I did read your post the same day you posted it and stated some things I hadn't thought of,Thank you.My main question at that time was turned out to be liters per minute. I was obviously new to air and was in a hurry and had time issues but I did find some info that suggested I call John at Jemco. Five minutes on the phone with him and he set me up with every thing I needed and not a much more over sized pump than I needed. Ron, passive aggressive? I was a little dissapointed and needed to get a pump in a hurry and was working 60+ hours a week with limited time to do the research. Reading it back my last sentence sounded a bit strong but my meaning was that I found the info so no need for anyone to add anything. I think it should have been called being just a lttle bit pissy, maybe.That sounds better and I was just frustrated trying to find the info I needed  in to much of a hurry.  You have helped me in the past and I was grateful for your help.

[Ron]

If you'd shared you were on limited time at least an extra response or two would have made it in. I saw the thread, but was limited on time to give a full response during the week, so I made it a point to remember to come back to it later in the week. I'm glad you got the info you needed - calling Jehmco was a good move. IMO that's what really sets them apart from other retailers: They know the products they sell, especially the fishroom equipment.