Michigan Cichlid Association

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: hensenshenchmen on June 06, 2014, 07:46:34 PM

Title: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: hensenshenchmen on June 06, 2014, 07:46:34 PM
I recently purchased a 120 gallon drilled aquarium with a corner overflow and sump and wet dry filter inside the stand. The sump is keeping the aquarium at 86 degrees. I'm keeping some Rio Cazones, convicts and a few oscars in the tank for now. Is this temp too warm for my fish? Should I buy a different water pump (not an actual sump pump, maybe a pond pump) that doesn't create that much heat. My fish seem extremely lively and are eating like champs but I obviously don't want sick or dead fish. Thanks for the info

Ian
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: cranialdisturbance on June 06, 2014, 08:01:17 PM
Do you have any heaters going in the tank?  If so I would check there first. I find it a little hard to believe that a water pump is heating 120 gallons of water many degrees above the ambient temperature.
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: hensenshenchmen on June 06, 2014, 08:20:38 PM
I don't even have a heater in the tank or filter, let alone a malfunctioning one. I can touch the pump and it'sphysically warm to the touch, like probably 100 degrees or warmer. I thought about installing an exhaust fan in the cabinet that houses the pump and filter but I'm not sure if it would make a difference. It's a newer pump so I doubt it's failing or faulty.
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: jkeeler on June 06, 2014, 10:57:02 PM
I was using a sump in a pond for a few years, but I figured out it was very costly to run 24/7.  You may want to consider looking on your energy use  on your various options.
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: Ron on June 07, 2014, 07:31:59 AM
Is the pump exceptionally hot due to relatively high head pressure/restriction? For example, if you have ball valves to control the return rate to the tank that you've mostly closed off to reduce the flow rate, it could be resulting in the additional heat.

Another possibility is if the return line is too small of a diameter. Or if you have a spray-bar return added that isn't large enough and causing a restriction. While smaller lines provide greater pressure, they also limit volume. Most pumps best regulate their heat through heat transfer to the liquid they are passing.

Adding an exhaust fan to the cabinet may help. Is the sump sealed up well or is it an open top? If it's not an open top, you may need to do that for a significant impact if the fan alone doesn't do it. You'd be combating the heat by allowing evaporation to occur and using the exhaust fan to both pull out warm air and lower the moisture within the cabinet, which would also help increase evaporation. The biggest downside would be needing to add water back to the sump more often.
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: hensenshenchmen on June 07, 2014, 03:03:19 PM
The system has 3/4 inch return lines, but the valve is opened all way. The pump is moving water about 4 feet up and 4 feet parallel to the ground. The pump is sealed in the cabinet pretty good, with very little air movement. After looking at the pump it says it is a 175 watt version. Looking at Ken's fish I found a deep blue pump that pushes a slightly higher rate of water, while only using 60 watts so I'm thinking of upgrading to a more energy efficient pump that hopefully doesn't produce as much heat
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: mightieskeeper on June 07, 2014, 09:07:07 PM
You have to big of a pump for your setup. A pump 800 to 1000 gph will be plenty of water flow. Low watt pumps save money for the long haul.
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: Bremmon on June 07, 2014, 10:21:41 PM
175w is a enormous pump..
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: Bremmon on June 07, 2014, 10:55:24 PM
I just looked at my 750 gallon per hour pond pump and its only 5w
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: danielratti on June 08, 2014, 08:22:23 AM
175 watts would be the equivalent of a mag 12... While I am here I'll say this any internal pump that you run inside the sump will get warm ad raise the temp some more so than others. External pumps do not warm the water and if they do it's only a few degrees like 1 to be honest. You could put fans in the tanks stand to help some but it will not do too much. 86 is kinda high for a pump to get a tank up to I have a mag 18 on mine and the room cab be 83 and the tank is 77.

Do you have glass tops on your tank?
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: hensenshenchmen on June 08, 2014, 03:43:48 PM
I've been looking online for water pumps and I cannot find anything that runs at 7 watts, or to be honest I can't find anything even close. The lowest wattage I can find is 40 watts for an 850gph pump. What brand is this pond pump you're talking about?

OK, after much research I figured out this is not a sump pump, it's more like a hot tub or a pool pump. It's an inline pump, not a submersible Pump.

Also I do have a Plexiglas top on the aquarium and there's a Plexiglas top on the wet dry filter. I installed a couple 12volt computer fans inside the cabinet and removed the top from the filter. I've got the temperature to lower to 83 overnight so I think I'm on the correct path.

Thanks for all the advice and opinions
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: mightieskeeper on June 08, 2014, 06:07:38 PM
Mag 9.5, quiet one 4000, ca3000,  eheim pump. Lots of good pumps.
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: danielratti on June 08, 2014, 06:31:50 PM
Take of the tops off the lids hold in heat
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: GrizzlysDad on June 10, 2014, 02:10:24 AM
This might sound silly but since you mentioned it possibly being a hot tub pump and it being rated at 175w, is it possible that it is a combination inline water pump/inline heater for a hot tub?
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: Ron on June 10, 2014, 06:56:20 AM
This might sound silly but since you mentioned it possibly being a hot tub pump and it being rated at 175w, is it possible that it is a combination inline water pump/inline heater for a hot tub?
Sounds silly.  ;D J/K

If it were me, I'd replace the pump with a proper aquarium-related pump that is size for the tank/GPH needed.
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: GrizzlysDad on June 10, 2014, 08:46:49 PM
This might sound silly but since you mentioned it possibly being a hot tub pump and it being rated at 175w, is it possible that it is a combination inline water pump/inline heater for a hot tub?
Sounds silly.  ;D J/K

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: hensenshenchmen on June 19, 2014, 06:42:06 PM
A little update. I purchased a new 1350gph pump and installed it only to realize that there was a major reason the original pump was 175 watts but only had a flow of 1119gph. I never counted the 7 90 degree elbows in my head height Friction pressure loss from 10 feet of 3/4 inch pvc. My "new" more "powerful" pump barely even pushes any water at all with the restrictions the system how it is set up.

Does head height differ whether you are pushing or pulling the water up?
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: danielratti on June 19, 2014, 07:02:15 PM
Going down you got gravity working with you up you are working against it. That is a lot of 90's and 10ft is the sump in your basement? If you can get away with doing a straight shot up and reduce the 90's that would be idea. Generally I would never hard plumb a pump do to many reasons. Best bet is 2 barb fittings and some flexible hose.
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: hensenshenchmen on June 19, 2014, 07:54:38 PM
I would have never used pvc either, but that's how it was set up when I bought it with an iwaki water pump.  I was thinking of flexible tubing myself. It looks like a standard garden hose would screw right on my pump, is that not possible.

The pump is set up on the opposite side of the bulkheads so it the pvc goes up 1 foot, parallel to the ground for 3 feet, then up through the bulkhead 3 feet, then back down 3 feet, that's not counting the foot that is attached to the intake side coming out of the wet dry sump
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: hensenshenchmen on June 19, 2014, 08:18:21 PM
I suppose if I could flip the sump around I could cut out about 5 feet of pvc and 3 90 degree elbows. I'm not sure if it would make a difference in the pressure I get on the outtake or not, but I imagine it would make quite a huge difference
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: danielratti on June 19, 2014, 09:44:35 PM
It would. Dude keep the iwaki
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: hensenshenchmen on June 19, 2014, 10:09:45 PM
The iwaki was keeping my tank 86 degrees or even hotter sometimes. I was trying to get a more energy efficient, cooler pump. With my filtration system set up as it is I don't see any better option than to leave the Plexiglas hood off and keep blowing a fan on the pump and sump system which had been keeping it about 79 degrees.
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: danielratti on June 19, 2014, 10:36:09 PM
Those shouldn't make the tank hot seeing as it is an external pump... If it was internal yes it could throw heat. The only part that would be producing heat is the back of the pump motor.
Title: Re: Sump/Wet Dry Filter Help
Post by: hensenshenchmen on June 19, 2014, 10:47:26 PM
Thus my dilemma. The pump motor does get hot. I don't know how or where the heat transfer is taking place but it sure is getting frustrating. Now after this constant temperature being too hot and me trying to get the tank at the right temperature now all of a sudden my fish have ich. I don't have a heater plugged in.