Michigan Cichlid Association
General Category => DIY => Topic started by: greg y on November 22, 2013, 09:56:55 AM
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FX5 with HYDOR inline heater?
ok, I'm contemplating buying this used FX5 for my 110 gal. but I also want to use my 300w hydor inline heater.
Can I just buy 1" id vinyl tube and (1" to 3/4") reducers from home depo?
I'm thinking it will go fx5 to 1" id tube to (1" to 3/4") reducer to green eheim 3/4" tube to heater to 3/4" green eheim tube to (3/4" to 1") reducer to stock output or make my own out of pvc.
Does that sound correct?
I currently have the heater hooked up to the green eheim 3/4 " tubing so I know that part is right.
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It should work.
But, do I have it right that you are reducing the FX5 output hose size? If so... it will reduce the flow of water slightly that the FX5 can output.
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I have to reduce it down to 3/4 of an inch for the in line heater hook up
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That will reduce the volume of water that the filter can put out. Not drastically, but it will reduce it some.
I am assuming that the heater has only a 3/4" inlet. You would always make a "T" and have two 3/4" lines, one with the heater and one without the heater.
Kind of like this...
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Reducers are fine to use. I actually just got mine in the mail last week from here http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23766&catid=551 found that place on a suggestion from a guy on C-F because it was hard to find them local in that size. You will need 1" to 5/8" not 1" to 3'4" (the 300w Hydor is a 5'8" nipple). Some guys have done the "Y" design as mentioned above but everyone I spoke to that has done reducers have not noticed any noticable lack of flow so just use the reducers and you'll be fine.
If you can't find the 1" to 5/8" reducers local (I couldn't when I looked) Then let me know because when I ordered mine last week I ordered a few extra and you can have two of those if you need them.
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Reducers are fine to use. I actually just got mine in the mail last week from here http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23766&catid=551 found that place on a suggestion from a guy on C-F because it was hard to find them local in that size. You will need 1" to 5/8" not 1" to 3'4" (the 300w Hydor is a 5'8" nipple). Some guys have done the "Y" design as mentioned above but everyone I spoke to that has done reducers have not noticed any noticable lack of flow so just use the reducers and you'll be fine.
If you can't find the 1" to 5/8" reducers local (I couldn't when I looked) Then let me know because when I ordered mine last week I ordered a few extra and you can have two of those if you need them.
cool, your link is a lot cheaper than what I found too :-)
http://www.mcmaster.com/?orderview=new#standard-barbed-tube-fittings/=phou53 (http://www.mcmaster.com/?orderview=new#standard-barbed-tube-fittings/=phou53)
If you don't think you'll need them I would appreciate you selling a couple of them to me Steve,
I'm not too worried about reduced flow, as long as it doesn't hurt the motor, etc...
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Yeah I for sure have extra. I only need four for my dual filter/hydors but I ordered 8 just to have some spare. So I can give you the two you need and still have a couple spare myself. Just let me know when you need them and I'll give ya a pair of them.
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thanks Steve.
not to worry you but I just read this on another forum, not sure what to think of it. I doubt it's a problem.
and I quote the guy "I e-mailed Hydor prior to buying, the 300 watt model works best at a max. of 250 g.p.h."
FX5 full of media is at least twice that I would think
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I completely disagree... there will be a considerable flow reduction.
You are using only slightly more than half what the fx5 outlet size is. It's physics.
Cover half the outlet of a hose... you get a little less water.
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I have my eth 300w currently hooked up to my fluval 406 and it flows a whole lot faster than 250 gph,
why would hydor make a state of the art heater 300w heater that needs to be hooked up to a piece of junk filter?
and what is the concern Ken? Lots of guys reduce the flow using custom plumbing and I am not able to find any negative feedback from it.
Do you think it will wear down the pump prematurely or just reduce effectiveness?
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I want the most filtration I can get. I don't want yo reduce any flow if I can avoid it.
This situation is avoidable.
Why buy a big bad ass filter and then choke it down. Doesn't make answer to me.
My guess if that this heater is dependant on water flow to heat the tank. So, a 5/8 orifice is optimal for it's function.
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Ken I think your overthinking it. Guys do this every single day with the FX5, your rated flow and actual flow are two different things. By the time a filter like the FX5 has the flow going through the media /foam the actual flow output is much less than what is advertised. Going through the 5/8" heater is not restricting it to a point where it makes any noticeable difference/effect.
I currently have a 5/8" 300w inline heater on each of my 55g tanks that run Rena xp3 and xp4 filters, there is no problem with reduced flow. I made my spray bars where they are half the size of normal spray bars (mine are 11" on each side of the tank, when you reduce the size you also increase the pressure so it counter acts the effect. I'm no fluid engineer by any means :o but I know guys do this every day with the fx5 & inline heater and have zero issues with flow.
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I do calculations for water flow for welding robots all the time... reducing the orifice will reduce flow. It's physics. It can't be argued.
If you don't mind that... your good to go.
If it was mine, I would never reduce flow on a filter.
I also do air calculations all the time too which is the same basic idea.
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My problem is there just isn't a lot of room to work with these things, they are a lot bigger that you would think and they need to be mounted vertically so by the time you do all these reducing and Y lines etc, you end up with just a couple inches of hose line between the can and the hard plumbing, I have a metal stand so I can't really screw this stuff into a cabnet.
not my pics but you get the idea
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61MnlzRpF8L._SY450_.jpg)
(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8386/pc083864.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2631/3721474838_19a41bb0c3.jpg)
(http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad323/Discus_Freek1/IMG_3755.jpg)
(http://www.hobbykwekers.nl/images/stories/artikelen/TECHNIEK/Opbouw_Juwel_Rio_300/Hydor_300_watt_thermosstaat.jpg)
see what I mean? the thing is bulky
I could do it like this but I believe this is incorrect:
(http://www.aquaristik-talk.de/attachments/galerie-archiv/23486d1287772042-am-hoib3rga-sein-eckaquarium-hydor_eth300.jpg)
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Ken I'm not tryin to be a jerk to ya so don't think that, but I simply think your are missing the fact that just because it is a 1" hose...that does not mean there is not a reduction in the system even from the factory.
Case in point I just took the elbow off one of my FX5's to show you what I mean. This is actually 13/16" here in the pic, and as it makes the turn it actually looks to be a tad smaller than 13/16". So just because the adapter is 1" to 5/8" that doesn't actually mean we are cutting the flow by 3/8" because there are other spots in the filter/factory equipment that are less than 1" from the factory to begin with.
See what I am trying to say?
(http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9353/ka2g.jpg)
Greg you do want to keep them as vertical as you can. I have mine pretty much vertical on both my 55g tanks. They are maybe 20 degrees tilted but no more than that.
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I gotcha. :-)
But 13/16 is quite different than 5/8.
A reduction of almost half of the output is more than I would want for my filter.
Everyone can do what they want though. I just usually want more flow in my tanks than less.
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It's really not that much Ken. The 5/8" is the ID of the heater opening not the OD so we're talking 3/16 difference at most so that's not half the output. Think of it this way...I'm sure you or others here use prefilters on your intakes right? Doing that restricts flow as well, I've noticed a slight difference on my bio-wheel 350 output when I put a prefilter over the intake so it wouldn't suck up fry. Basically the same thing your just losing a very slight amount of flow, not enough to worry about by any means though. With two fx5's on my 265 I think I'll have more than enough flow for anything short of chinook salmon ;) lol
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I don't know what to say other than I'm going off real world experience that happens every day in my life.
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Okay I'm just gonna say we disagree, because I too am going off real world as I have this on both my 55's and no noticeable loss in flow because again, we are not talking a large change in ID size, but I digress.
Agree to disagree on this one, no worries.
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Sorry I have to ...
8)
How are you measuring this lack of difference, by eye?
I have seen a measured difference .
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I'm no expert but when I look at my eheim 5/8" green hose that I use on my hydor 300w heater and look at some fx5 1" ribbed tubing I have left over from a past deal I can say yes this green tube can fit inside this black tube but there is no way it's almost twice as big
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I said almost. Now, since you are getting nitpicky...
A one inconsistent at 10 psi can flowers about 15 gallons per minute. A 5/8 hose is about 5 gallons per minute.
That's going off memory, so... give me a break.
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That's not a minor difference in just mind.
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All I'll say is this Ken..
On my two tanks I have running, yes that is my opinion that by eye there is no "noticeable" difference. And since this is fish keeping and not building rockets then if I can't see a "noticeable" difference then to me that is perfectly fine. I am not saying there is not a measurable difference because I'm sure if you wanted to hook up some sort of flow gauge then sure you might see a slight difference, but so what? if it's not "noticeable" then it's not gonna make any real world difference IMO. Not to mention, when did "flow" because the most important thing in a cichlid tank? you still have the same amount of mechanical, same amount of bio, and if you feel you need to move more water than stick a powerhead in there and problem solved. But from my experience with doing this as well as the many others that do it, the difference is not enough to even show up physically so it's not a concern.
Also you can't base flow as a consistent across the board for everyone because we all have difference foam pads, different media, rings, matrix media or what have you in our filters. So person X may have more flow than person Y with the same filter because they have different media that the water has to run through. So who's to say which is best. I think this whole thing is getting WAY blown out of proportion IMO
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ok Ken, I just took a pic and I have to admit it is a lot larger, I don't know about if it makes a difference or not just saying, I'll load the pic in a minute, so what parts would I need to do this double split Y thing? I will need a lot more hardware to do that
(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx260/gy561/unnamed_zps80229211.jpg)
(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx260/gy561/unnamedhmh_zps84577b3a.jpg)
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Steve, you are arguing physics here. :-\ Just because you don't SEE the difference means nothing. I can prove, with science, there is a big difference in flow.
And yes, amount of Bio and flow are ALL that matters in filtration... not just cichlids. It's even more important with cichlids because people tend yo load up the tanks and they eat a lot, which produces a lot of waste.
With out a lot of flow... the Bio is useless"
that's the benefit of an fx5... tons of Bio and flow rate that beats anything on the market.
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Home depot it Lowes can get you all the fittings you need.
The hard part will be connecting to the corrugated hose.
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Ken this is why I keep saying you are missing the point to what I am saying.
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With out a lot of flow... the Bio is useless"
If you go back and look at what I said, I said it does not make a difference that matters. With the FX5 (or two in my case) there is more than enough flow already, even with 5/8 inline in place there is STILL a lot of flow and more than is needed in most cases. That is my entire point. I am not saying it doesn't lower the flow a bit, I'm simply saying there is still more than enough.
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well I would use 1" id bev tube from homedepo, and I will need 2 (Y) fittings that are 1" reduced down to 5/8" id, those might be hard to find right?
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And you're missing my point, why purposely choke down the best filter on the market ?
why I purposely lessen your filtration on your fish tank ? More us better. Don't take away the safety factor for no reason at all.
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well I would use 1" id bev tube from homedepo, and I will need 2 (Y) fittings that are 1" reduced down to 5/8" id, those might be hard to find right?
Nah, shouldn't be too hard. And you want a Y for sure.
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i"m confused
(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx260/gy561/heater_zpsb6de0f34.jpg)
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And you're missing my point, why purposely choke down the best filter on the market ?
why I purposely lessen your filtration on your fish tank ? More us better. Don't take away the safety factor for no reason at all.
Because who needs to have a tsunami in the tank?? My God man your way to stuck to making this into some technical deal more than it needs to be. Your not losing your filtration.....
Know what nevermind.
Greg I do mine with the inline filter and have zero filtration or NOTICEABLE flow issues, so do tons of other people. If you want to use the reducers I have extra and you can have a pair just let me know. If you want to do the "Y" thing there have been people that have done that, but then there have been those that said because you only have 50% of the flow running "through" the heater you get some bypass and not evenly heated right. Is that true? I dunno, all I know is there will always be different ways to do things and no one way no matter how it looks on paper is best. Do you lose "some" flow with reducers, yeah, is it enough to worry about? No.
With that I'm done with this discussion. I don't care for the direction it is going to be honest.
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ok Steve, thanks buddy, sorry if I was throwing gas on the flames, I agree, more than one way to cook a goose ya know?
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That was a fun read. Lol.
Anyway, I enjoy doing custom works with the FX5. They does my water changes for me and I attached a fun but simple spray bar to one of them. As far as the reducing flow goes I get both sides of the fence of that argument. As long as you don't restrict the flow "too much" you avoid running the risk of prematurely burning out your motor.
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My intention was not to piss you off Steve.
I just dont understand how people will accept a reduced flow... for now reason when it is completely avoidable.
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I think the best and simplest solution is to just leave the hydor on one of my slow flow cans and keep the fx5 stock and run both side by side.
It just sort of ruins my excuse with my fiance, because I told her after the upgrade I would sell my 2 eheim 2229's and my fluval 406 and we will have less clutter and all that.
;-)
But really if the hydor works best at a lower flow rate and I already have a can that is running that way, I might as well use it
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That's actually the best solution yet!!!
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That's actually the best solution yet!!!
I have to agree.