Michigan Cichlid Association
Announcements => Suggestions => Topic started by: tugboat on August 07, 2013, 12:18:13 PM
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Wondered if anybody else has thought anymore about the ratings system idea brought up in a previous post, I really believe it is a good idea to help the members here avoid any unsavory sellers from abusing the good will of the club for financial gains. I really appreciate all this site has to offer and the great members who have a wealth of knowledge and experience and would hate to think that they would be driven to leave or become non participators because of bad dealings or shady selling practices. I am unfamiliar with this software being used on this site so if this is a difficult task perhaps it could be as simple as a plus or minus percentage (a la eBay) under our avatars in regards to out selling buying rep etc. Just a thought..:)
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I think all that would do is creat more problems people being rated based on a transaction we don't know the story the cost the previous hand offs and if one person gets pissed about something can leave negative feedback? And then we look at it and say oh he has something negative on him. But we don't know what happened. There are two sides to the story and much more than people want to give. We are all adults if we can handle our disputes like adults instead of a form of calling people out for bad deals, mishaps, or miscommunication then there are bigger issues at hand.
Secondly we are dealing live animals as well as equipment that had to be maintained tanks need to be resealed, filters need upkeep and so on and so forth. If you don't want the possibility to have to fix or maintain something then you have the right to buy it brand new or from a store that has warranties but if you are buying used that's exactly what it is used. We all tend to buy things used because its cheaper but if you don't have common sense to know that eventually that will need to be replaced as well then I don't know what to say. I have boughten used filters that work great and new ones that worked for a day and vise versa. That is always the chance you take buying used there is no guaranty.
We could all instead of trying to find a way to grade people when you buy something used maybe you should test it or look it over to me that's just common sense.
That is my opinion
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here we go ::)...
Let's talk about hybrids instead.
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I think all that would do is creat more problems people being rated based on a transaction we don't know the story the cost the previous hand offs and if one person gets pissed about something can leave negative feedback? And then we look at it and say oh he has something negative on him. But we don't know what happened. There are two sides to the story and much more than people want to give. We are all adults if we can handle our disputes like adults instead of a form of calling people out for bad deals, mishaps, or miscommunication then there are bigger issues at hand.
Secondly we are dealing live animals as well as equipment that had to be maintained tanks need to be resealed, filters need upkeep and so on and so forth. If you don't want the possibility to have to fix or maintain something then you have the right to buy it brand new or from a store that has warranties but if you are buying used that's exactly what it is used. We all tend to buy things used because its cheaper but if you don't have common sense to know that eventually that will need to be replaced as well then I don't know what to say. I have boughten used filters that work great and new ones that worked for a day and vise versa. That is always the chance you take buying used there is no guaranty.
We could all instead of trying to find a way to grade people when you buy something used maybe you should test it or look it over to me that's just common sense.
That is my opinion
Excellent points. Case in point - I sold a filter to Loon36CF that was working fine for me on a tank, took it down, and somehow in storage or in transport the filter casing got cracked. I didn't test it or look as closely as I should have right before we met up because it had been working when I put it away. So obviously he was frustrated when he got it and it leaked. But we worked it out, sent him a partial refund and what not. If there was a ratings system I'd have had a bad flag by my name...then after we worked it out we would have had to try to get that fixed...better not to hassle with all that. It would be like eBay or (possibly) AquaBid - the bad sellers just cancel their accounts and pop up under a different name and the good sellers people learn about over time, e.g. through word of mouth.
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Excellent points. Case in point - I sold a filter to Loon36CF that was working fine for me on a tank, took it down, and somehow in storage or in transport the filter casing got cracked. I didn't test it or look as closely as I should have right before we met up because it had been working when I put it away. So obviously he was frustrated when he got it and it leaked. But we worked it out, sent him a partial refund and what not. If there was a ratings system I'd have had a bad flag by my name...then after we worked it out we would have had to try to get that fixed...better not to hassle with all that. It would be like eBay or (possibly) AquaBid - the bad sellers just cancel their accounts and pop up under a different name and the good sellers people learn about over time, e.g. through word of mouth.
And when Dan Asked me If I had a motor for said filter,I did and swapped it out for Him so Loon36cf had a working filter. I didn't charge Dan a Penny,I did it because a friend needed some help, but these things go unnoticed. I didn't want any high fives or post about it,I was just helping a friend out.
That's where a rating system is bad, because things are often worked out "behind the scene"
What about all the extras someone throws in or gives super good deals or deliver items so the buyer doesnt have to pick them up for what ever reason,these are the things that go unnoticed.
So if you have a bad experience work it out with the seller,I know I have sold many things and for some reason the buyer didn't like or want said item, and I offer to replace repair or exchange (If I have it). Then I have thrown something in to say hey I'm sorry for the mishap.
I guess I must be a idiot fort rying to be helpful :-X
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I agree that was one of my first transaction on this forum was with Dan yes I was a little upset to see if was cracked who's fault was it who knows but Dan took care of it and so did rich made sure the deal was fixed we worked it out as adults I didn't ask for anything but Dan hooked me up. Maybe if Dan didn't try to fix the situation I wouldn't buy from him anymore but he did I have no issues and will most likely buy more stuff from him in the future. But the point is that was one transaction I am sure many have boughten from him and the stuff was great does he deserve a bad making because of one mishap out of 100 things he sold. No things happen lets deal with them as adults and be realistic. I don't feel there's any need for a grading system. In Dan and my case I could have looked it over before I bought it that was my fault. Sometimes we get excited to get new stuff and we over look the things we should be doing when buying things.
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I think all that would do is creat more problems people being rated based on a transaction we don't know the story the cost the previous hand offs and if one person gets pissed about something can leave negative feedback? And then we look at it and say oh he has something negative on him. But we don't know what happened. There are two sides to the story and much more than people want to give. We are all adults if we can handle our disputes like adults instead of a form of calling people out for bad deals, mishaps, or miscommunication then there are bigger issues at hand.
Secondly we are dealing live animals as well as equipment that had to be maintained tanks need to be resealed, filters need upkeep and so on and so forth. If you don't want the possibility to have to fix or maintain something then you have the right to buy it brand new or from a store that has warranties but if you are buying used that's exactly what it is used. We all tend to buy things used because its cheaper but if you don't have common sense to know that eventually that will need to be replaced as well then I don't know what to say. I have boughten used filters that work great and new ones that worked for a day and vise versa. That is always the chance you take buying used there is no guaranty.
We could all instead of trying to find a way to grade people when you buy something used maybe you should test it or look it over to me that's just common sense.
That is my opinion
I agree
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If there's a problem with any transactions between club members & they are not resolved between the two parties. ie Youre lied to about the condition of an item... the seller offers you something else you agree, then they sell it to somebody else instead, offer you something else, you agree to that, they decide that option "costs too much", just keeps giving you the run around, threatens you with made up with made up BS if you go public and "bash" them.
Save all communication from the transaction, forward it to somebody on the BOD (Marty, Marty R, Dave, Mike G /Megan , Mike Z or myself )
We will look it over, discuss the situation & get back to you.
As always it's buyer beware on the MCA forums & the MCA cannot be responsible for any private deal made between members. I'd suggest you do not take anybody's word on anything, No matter How much you've dealt with them previously & No matter How much the other party has acted like a friend.
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I feel a system like this would just cause problems. Maybe if they club was much larger like 5000 where there are tons and tons of postings.
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If there's a problem with any transactions between club members & they are not resolved between the two parties. ie Youre lied to about the condition of an item... the seller offers you something else you agree, then they sell it to somebody else instead, offer you something else, you agree to that, they decide that option "costs too much", just keeps giving you the run around, threatens you with made up with made up BS if you go public and "bash" them.
Save all communication from the transaction, forward it to somebody on the BOD (Marty, Marty R, Dave, Mike G /Megan , Mike Z or myself )
We will look it over, discuss the situation & get back to you.
As always it's buyer beware on the MCA forums & the MCA cannot be responsible for any private deal made between members. I'd suggest you do not take anybody's word on anything, No matter How much you've dealt with them previously & No matter How much the other party has acted like a friend.
I'm not a respected member like Blair, but I agree with what he said and I've been here for a year or so now. I think Blair said it pretty well. A "system" would maybe worlk okay. BUT might actually do more harm than good too, just depends.
Case in point, some months ago I thought I had a deal with a member here for something, next thing I know it was sold to someone else. IMO I was not happy he jumped on the cash other than what I thought was a deal on our word with cash waiting. So that gave me a bad image of the whole MCA site because I'm a man of my word and cash/word is my bond. Since then I have dealt with Tony, Blair, Marty, Pete, Rich,Chris, Jon and Jenna...and had nothing but perfect dealings with all of them. So if we had a rating then I may have rated someone bad and left the site not to return, who knows.
I dunno, I think we are all adults and can judge who is right or wrong for ourselves. Plus most us know each other and have each others phone #'s so if theres a honestly bad deal, it'll probably spread word in no time anyway I would guess.
Just my opinion for what its worth.
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Wait Blair is a respected member?
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Wait Blair is a respected member?
Lol Dan I think I have a good job for you come September auction. :P
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I don't favor a like/dislike system mainly because of all the previous points about all the behind-the-scenes activities that wouldn't be adequately reflected in a simple rating system. I'd favor members just making an endorsement of a seller when they feel they've had a very good interaction. Other members reading those kinds of comments will quickly learn who are the best folks to buy from. Some members are doing this already and it keeps things from degenerating as often happens in disputes. Just my opinion.
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I agree we are all adults and have the power of making our own decisions but what about future new members who don't have the benefits of knowing who is a straight dealer and who is a scammer? Kind of like taking down the No Swimming Sharks Sighted sign posted at a beach and then watching a unsuspecting family show up and wade into the water.....
P.S.
Yes I have been watching shark week..:)
(http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums/r797/tugboat13/922029-shark-warning-sign_zps688a03ac.jpg) (http://s1367.photobucket.com/user/tugboat13/media/922029-shark-warning-sign_zps688a03ac.jpg.html)
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.... Kind of like taking down the No Swimming Sharks Sighted sign posted at a beach and then watching a unsuspecting family show up and wade into the water.....
P.S.
Yes I have been watching shark week..:)
That's simply Charles Darwin's survival of the fittest at work. ;)
All in all, the problem doing this isn't the software, it's the judging necessary to determine what really happens. If you have a particular issue with an unscrupulous member of the club just report it as Blair suggested.
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Whats wrong with publicly asking for a refund? If a seller gets too many of these, it might send a RED FLAG to buyers. I think it would keep honest people honest and the rift raff away. Or better yet require sellers to post there real name.
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I am not asking for anyone to judge (moderators etc.) just allow members to leave info either positively or negatively depending on the experience they have had with that member. Then if you are supplied with that info you can make up your own mind to proceed or not etc. On eBay just because a seller has one or two complaints vs dozens of positive results wouldn't sway me from doing business. Its the individual with multiple bad results (5 to 8 ) that would warn me away as that demonstrates a pattern of problems. I understand you can't make everybody happy 100% of the time but the effort to make things right speaks volumes as much as the final exchange.
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I am not asking for anyone to judge (moderators etc.) just allow members to leave info either positively or negatively depending on the experience they have had with that member. Then if you are supplied with that info you can make up your own mind to proceed or not etc. On eBay just because a seller has one or two complaints vs dozens of positive results wouldn't sway me from doing business. Its the individual with multiple bad results (5 to 8 ) that would warn me away as that demonstrates a pattern of problems. I understand you can't make everybody happy 100% of the time but the effort to make things right speaks volumes as much as the final exchange.
I get your analogy but half the time people don't post good feedback so it's the bad that sticks. Leave info in a transaction thread if you want but I feel strongly this should be optional.
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Things have gotten out of hand a bit, so this is shut down. Some content was removed and is awaiting review. It may be moved back and the thread may be reopened.
For the time being I'm requesting no additional threads be started on the content that was removed.
Caveat emptor
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I'll be addressing this shortly............
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What happened on this thread a couple of hours ago was UNACCEPTABLE
Tugboat - Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Also, If you're going to accuse someone of something, you better cite personal examples and not libelous generalizations of things you heard from third parties that you have no proof of.
Rich - Your responses to Blair were personal attacks which were not only deplorable, but they served no purpose other than to try to embarrass Blair
Blair - You stirring the pot by encouraging other people to post in the thread and then stirring the pot again by posting in other threads after Ron locked this thread was not cool at all.
You have been warned. If you want a vacation from the site, test me. When I'm not here, what Ron says, goes. There's a reason Ron is the only full site moderator. He's shown incredibly good judgment and moderation skills all the way back to mittenstatecichlids.