Michigan Cichlid Association
General Category => Old World => Topic started by: bmarine on June 02, 2013, 04:59:54 PM
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I have a standard 55g tank with 6 victorian cichlids in it, and I'm looking to get some peacocks and/or haps to put in there (maybe to breed). The victorians are mildly aggressive (they did well with mbunas) so I'm looking for some peacocks/haps that can hold their own. Any ideas?
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I have had jacobfreibergi, red empress, protomelas kirkii, and several other haps do well with Vics. What species of Victorians is it?
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They are mbipia cf. luteas....and they are about an inch to 2 inches long
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I have had to take every Victorian I have had out of my peacock tank because of bullying.
Caused all the peacocks to stress and loose color.
But they are doing find with my mbuna
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When I had the Mbipia cf Lutea I had them with protomelas spilonotus, a lemon jake, and a few others. I didn't have any problems other than when they were spawning, but even then they were ok. It's possible that I was the one who bred yours, and if so their parents where very very relaxed.
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Gotcha, i actually bought the parents at an auction as a breeding trio, and these six are actually ones I bred myself, but its possible I got the parents from you! Would it be better for the peacocks if I got them all bigger than the luteas?
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I think I remember that trio. They are an awesome fish.
I would get larger haps or peacocks and just watch them. With mine it depended on the individual fish.
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Gotcha, sounds good! did you sell them at the GVAC auction? The person I bought them from gave me a deal on them because one of the females was dying. Do you remember that?
Also, random question, whats the difference between peacocks and haps?
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I did sell some there. I think that the trio you for is one is sold to a club member as juvies. He raised them up and then sold them to you I believe. All the ones in GVAC were descended from a group I had at one point.
Peacocks are members of the genus Aulonocara, and are called such for their colors. Haps are members of the group called haplochromines, which originated from the holding genus of haplochromis, where many members where put while being re evaluated. They are from many other genus. I am sure someone else on here with more knowledge can give a better definition than that.
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Gotcha. Cool! And thanks! So if I kept those 6 luteas, how many peacocks/haps could i put in there with them?
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To add to the peacocks vs Haps question..... Peacocks are haps, which all belong to the genus Aulonocara. So they basically are a specialized groups of Haps which all exhibit similar behaviors & traits. As Justin said the Peacock label comes from their bright coloration.
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Ohhh ok. So if I just say haps-that includes peacocks then? Oh and by the way, I got that mbipia cf. lutea trio from a guy named Steven, do you know him?
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No, haps does not generally include peacocks, at least to me. They are their own little group, but they are more similar than Mbuna.
Yup, Steven is the guy I sold fry to who grew them out.
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Oh ok. I think I kinda get it. And gotcha, cool! You still breed luteas then?
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No, haps does not generally include peacocks, at least to me. They are their own little group, but they are more similar than Mbuna.
Yup, Steven is the guy I sold fry to who grew them out.
Aulonocara are generally considered "haplochromines" which are part of the sub family of pseudocrenilabrinae and part of the tribe haplochromini. So, they are not haplochromis, which is a different genus, but they are haplochromines.
Here's a quick breakdown that might make a little more sense.
They are part of the family: cichlidae
part of the subfamily: pseudocrenilabrinae
part of the tribe: haplochromini (aka haplochromine)
part of the genus: aulonocara
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No, haps does not generally include peacocks, at least to me. They are their own little group, but they are more similar than Mbuna.
Yup, Steven is the guy I sold fry to who grew them out.
Aulonocara are generally considered "haplochromines" which are part of the sub family of pseudocrenilabrinae and part of the tribe haplochromini. So, they are not haplochromis, which is a different genus, but they are haplochromines.
Here's a quick breakdown that might make a little more sense.
They are part of the family: cichlidae
part of the subfamily: pseudocrenilabrinae
part of the tribe: haplochromini (aka haplochromine)
part of the genus: aulonocara
thank you Marty for breaking it down. I should've been more specific
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Ohhh. I gotcha now. Thanks! So the haps are haplochromis and peacocks are haplochromines, they are not the same but very similar?
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Marty: Thanks for the explanation. I never quite realized that.
I don't breed the mbipia cf lutea anymore sadly. They were an awesome fish though.
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Ohhh. I gotcha now. Thanks! So the haps are haplochromis and peacocks are haplochromines, they are not the same but very similar?
They are both haplochromines (think of haplochromines as being one level above haplochromis and auloncara on the family tree so to speak).
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Ohhhh ok I get it! That clears everything up!
Marty: Thanks for the explanation. I never quite realized that.
I don't breed the mbipia cf lutea anymore sadly. They were an awesome fish though.
They are a really cool fish! They are definitely my favorite right now! The only problem is, I can't seem to sell any of my fry. No one seems to want them!
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Ohhhh ok I get it! That clears everything up!
Marty: Thanks for the explanation. I never quite realized that.
I don't breed the mbipia cf lutea anymore sadly. They were an awesome fish though.
They are a really cool fish! They are definitely my favorite right now! The only problem is, I can't seem to sell any of my fry. No one seems to want them!
I had the same problem before I sold off my breeders.
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Ohhhh ok I get it! That clears everything up!
Marty: Thanks for the explanation. I never quite realized that.
I don't breed the mbipia cf lutea anymore sadly. They were an awesome fish though.
They are a really cool fish! They are definitely my favorite right now! The only problem is, I can't seem to sell any of my fry. No one seems to want them!
sounds like it's time to start practicing your shipping skills. ;)
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Yeah maybe ;) too bad though, they are a cool fish and so colorful!
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Maybe not too many people know what they are. I had to look them up when you posted the fry for sale. Never heard of this species before.
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Yeah thats true. I'm just hoping someone goes for them! I have 29 of them in another tank!
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Maybe not too many people know what they are. I had to look them up when you posted the fry for sale. Never heard of this species before.
x2 :)
That's the problem with some of the really cool fish species out there. If no one knows what they are, they just don't sell well compared to the more common and popular options.
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Thats true. But i posted an ad for them in many places and I would have thought someone would want them lol. (Btw the fish in my profile picture is a mbipia cf. lutea) I don't know, we'll see. So, anyone else have semi-aggressive victorians with peacocks/haps?
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Sold the luteas to my LFS. I bought 5 lemon jakes and have those in the 55 right now. What are some other good haps or peacocks that I could put with them? I thought maybe:
Red empress
Copadichromis trevawasae
Protomelas spilonotus or "taiwan reef" or " Mbenji Thick Lip"
Otopharynx lithobates
Aulonocara Maylandi or Lwanda
Hoping to breed by the way so I'm thinking maybe 4 trios would work. And I'm planning on taking out 2 of the jakes once they pair up. Hope not to crossbreed this time ;)
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How big are they? Also if you have females I would not add another peacock, that would promote cross breeding. I have a group of red empress I can part out. $35.00 for a quad. Male is showing great color and they should be able to handle to attitude of lemon jakes. I wouldn't do a copadichromis from my experience. Lithobates would be ok, should be able to handle the lemon jakes as well.
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All the lemon jakes are around 2-2.5 inches, none showing much color yet. Would they be okay in a 55 gallon? And I think i might get some small Red empress from my LFS because I have a good amount of store credit there, thanks though! Whats wrong with the copadichromis? And how bout the spilonotus or stevani taiwans?
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All the lemon jakes are around 2-2.5 inches, none showing much color yet. Would they be okay in a 55 gallon? And I think i might get some small Red empress from my LFS because I have a good amount of store credit there, thanks though! Whats wrong with the copadichromis? And how bout the spilonotus or stevani taiwans?
I think you would be ok with any Protomelas genus. You could try the copadichromis,but my thought is the lemon jakes might hand it to them. Lemon jakes can very mean. And look for the dominate male to start taking out the competition if you have multiple males. Again just from experience I know someone had with them prior. I would probably choose spilonotus if it were me, I have always wanted to keep them.
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Gotcha. So could i do multiple protomelas'? Or would that cause interbreeding? Also, what about some fish from the Placidochromis genus?
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Spilonatus get pretty big and can be a. bit mean for a 55
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Gotcha. So could i do multiple protomelas'? Or would that cause interbreeding? Also, what about some fish from the Placidochromis genus?
for breeding protomelas needs a bigger tank then a 55gal.. as well as Placidochromis..
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Gotcha. So could i do multiple protomelas'? Or would that cause interbreeding? Also, what about some fish from the Placidochromis genus?
I would not do multiple Protomelas. As far as Placidochromis, besides deep water Haps the others get way to big for a 55 gallon and would not hold up with the aggression of lemon jakes.
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Mm ok. So could i do the red empresses then, some otopharynx lithobates, and some deep water haps or some trevawasae?
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Mm ok. So could i do the red empresses then, some otopharynx lithobates, and some deep water haps or some trevawasae?
Red Empress get too big for a 55gal and there very mean.
Select up to 3 groups (Only 1 male for each group is preferred. 9 fish total for the tank):
• Any Copadichromis species (except for larger species i.e. borleyi, jacksoni, etc.)
• Any Protomelas species (except for larger species, i.e. taeniolatus, spilonotus, sp. "Mbenji Thick Lip", etc.)
• Any Aulonocara species (no jacobfreibergi)
• Any Placidochromis species (except for milomo)
• Otopharynx lithobates
• Any Nyassachromis species
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Hmm. Ok. Next question: i really like the red empresses, so could i get some as fry and grow them out in the 55 gallon until i get a 75 or 125?
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Hmm. Ok. Next question: i really like the red empresses, so could i get some as fry and grow them out in the 55 gallon until i get a 75 or 125?
Yes you could.
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Alright great! So heres what i'm thinking:
Since i have lemon jakes already i'm going to keep 3 of those,
Grow out 3 red empresses, and then either get 3 lithobates, or deep water haps, or trewavasae.
Sound good? Then I'll have 3 trios until the empresses are larger and I get a bigger tank.
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I think red empress are fine in a 55. This is the size mine are in and have breed hundreds in this size tank with another hap or peacock genus. If you really want more than two species I would recommend a 75 gallon.
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I think red empress are fine in a 55. This is the size mine are in and have breed hundreds in this size tank with another hap or peacock genus. If you really want more than two species I would recommend a 75 gallon.
red empress get up to 9" and 75 gallon is best for more than two species
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I've honestly never seen one hit 9 inches. On top of that I've seen them breed in 40 gallons just fine.
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I've honestly never seen one hit 9 inches. On top of that I've seen them breed in 40 gallons just fine.
Thats what I was thinking too.
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I've seen my fair share of fish that get big like a kadango that hit 16". The biggest I've had one get is 7 inches in 200 gallons.
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So i could do red empress in a 55 if i just lower the amount of fish maybe?
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You could. I have mylochromis and type north peacocks in a 55 along with julies and catfish.
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Never heard of those! But good to know that I can! So when I upgrade then, could i do more in a 75, or do they really need a longer tank, like a 125?
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The reason Empress don't really work in a 55 is that they get to be a 9" fish trying to turn around in an 11.5" space...so a 75 would be much better but the bigger the better with fish that large.
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Gotcha makes sense. I think i might take back the lemon jakes then and get
3 stuartgranti or 3 german red peacocks,
3 otopharynx lithobates,
and 3 deep water haps or 3 trewavasae.
Sound decent then? any revisions? And possible to add another trio or even 1 more fish?
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The reason Empress don't really work in a 55 is that they get to be a 9" fish trying to turn around in an 11.5" space...so a 75 would be much better but the bigger the better with fish that large.
I agree ^
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I dunno in 10 years of keeping cichlids I've never seen one get past 7 inches 3 of those years working in fish stores. Maybe I need to get the ones you guys are getting.
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I dunno in 10 years of keeping cichlids I've never seen one get past 7 inches 3 of those years working in fish stores. Maybe I need to get the ones you guys are getting.
Again... same thing I was thinking. In the wild maybe they get that big... but I dont see it in captivity. (maybe a 300 gallon tank after 5 years or more)
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Yeah I dunno. Mine did 2 years in 200 gallons and stopped at 7 now he is dead. The world may never know.
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Someone must be getting them to 9"...or maybe it's all hearsay from people like me :)...my empress is at 7" at roughly a year old, who knows, maybe he's done but even at his size I'd feel bad if here were in a 12" wide tank.
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Someone must be getting them to 9"...or maybe it's all hearsay from people like me :)...my empress is at 7" at roughly a year old, who knows, maybe he's done but even at his size I'd feel bad if here were in a 12" wide tank.
7" in one year?
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I've had him for 14 months, he was shipped in at 2" so however old that makes him.