Michigan Cichlid Association
General Category => Old World => Topic started by: linuxrulesusa on April 07, 2013, 09:48:18 PM
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I am considering a 55 tang tank in the next few months. Tank dimensions are 48x13x21.
Fish I have currently:
Leleupi pair
5 julidochromis dickfeldi approximately 2"
Single black calvus about 1.5"
Hecqui pair
Brevis pair
Brichardi pair
Of these, I was thinking about trying the leleupi, hecqui, and Julies for bottom dwellers. Maybe the calvus as well for now
Rock piles on either end for the Julies and leleupi. Then open sand in the middle for the hecqui. Filtration would be. an AC110 and also possibly a hydro V.
For top dwellers, I was thinking non jumbo cyprichromis.
If that stocking might work, what cyps would look nice (a bit more colorful) and do well in a 48x13 footprint?
Thanks.
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Dan
One day I'm going to have you lay out a tank for me, you put so much detail and effort into planning your tanks.
Can't wait to see it.
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IMO the best cyp choice for that size tank would be C. leptosoma.
As for the current stocking list, I think you're running out of floor space....
Once the brichardi start breeding, they might try to take over the tank, at least 1/2 of it for sure.
I'd expect the leleupi pair to take over 1/3 of it, if not a bit more.
Once the julies pair, I'd expect each pair to want at least 1/3 of the tank.
I'd expect the N. brevis would be fine with a 1'x1' area, providing they find one to call their own.
I do think the single calvus with his armor can find a place to fit in, if there is enough rockwork to break up the tank. He also might be the saving grace to stop a breeding brichardi invasion.
I've got no idea about hecqui, but given the above already, I just don't see how all of this will fit long term. The thing I like about malawians over tangs is that you can stock heavily. With tangs it's often more of an ecosystem type setup, with the exception of a few things you can cram in tanks, but in those cases it's usually limited to 1-2 species at most with just lots of individuals of those species (tropheus colony, cyp colony, etc).
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Rich, thanks.
Ron - Sorry, to clarify I am thinking 3-4 max species. I was listing all the species I have currently in case there was a better mix than my plan. They are in different tanks currently.
So, my current plan would be one julidochromis pair, one hecqui pair, and one leleupi pair on the bottom...then a group of cyps on the top. Doable? If so, how many cyps ideally?
I also have some lucipinnis but they are pretty big so that might be pushing it to add them in...they'll probably stay in the bottom tank with my mouthbrooding Malawians so they don't interfere with the Tang species that are egg layers.
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I would watch the hequi and cyps. I have a pair of hequi and in a tank with other fish from my expirence they are the meanest shelldweller there is. I had in with lelupi and my lelupi were kept at the top of the tank. Could have been do to the tank size, it was 36x12.
As far as the catfish, most likely they will eat your spawns. I have to get mine out of my 75 as I am pretty sure they are eating the eggs from my Julies.
Just my two cents.
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Interesting. I will leave the catfish with the mbuna then. Even though the cats are Tangyanikan and the mbuna are malawi, it's a combo that seems to work great. And if I'm stripping the females before they spit the fry, I shouldn't lose any to the catfish.
As far as the hecqui, they're doing fine by themselves in a 24x12 15g tank. So they can stay there if needed.
I was originally thinking hecqui + leleupi because many people seem to think they are meaner/more aggressive species and could effectively compete with each other. On the other hand, my leleupi seem to be getting along great in my 36x12 with much smaller julies, even hiding in the same rocks. But neither species is breeding at the moment, so I will continue to monitor things.
I suppose I could try the hecqui, leleupi, and julies, and then if that didn't work, try another shelldweller, e.g. ocellatus, in place of the hecqui. But that might not work well for keeping any fry, if the ocellatus are bad parents.
If I was only doing three species, I could just leave the leleupi and julies in the 36x12 and wait on the cyps. I'll continue to do some research...maybe try sticking the hecqui in with the julies and leleupi in the 36x12 on a Saturday when I can watch them closely and see how they react to each other. And put in a divider if there are issues or move them back out.
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Ron - Sorry, to clarify I am thinking 3-4 max species. I was listing all the species I have currently in case there was a better mix than my plan. They are in different tanks currently.
Ah, gotcha. I was originally thinking that, but wasn't too sure. I don't know much about hecqui personally. I think a pair of julies and a pair of leleupi would be a nice combo and expect them to split the tank with good aquascaping. If you add in a pair of shellies, N. brevis require the least space out of them all IME. I've kept 2 adult pairs in a 10 gallon before, using a big rock to split the tank in two, and they were all happy.
As for the cyps I suggested, somewhere around 8-10 might be a good number. You might be able to push it higher if you wanted. If it was a cyp-only tank, 16-18 wouldn't be unheard of for a 55 gallon. FWIW it's typically hard to find larger cyps ( >2" ), so depending on the size of your other fish you might have to spend some time growing them out before they can be introduced.
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Ron - Sorry, to clarify I am thinking 3-4 max species. I was listing all the species I have currently in case there was a better mix than my plan. They are in different tanks currently.
Ah, gotcha. I was originally thinking that, but wasn't too sure. I don't know much about hecqui personally. I think a pair of julies and a pair of leleupi would be a nice combo and expect them to split the tank with good aquascaping. If you add in a pair of shellies, N. brevis require the least space out of them all IME. I've kept 2 adult pairs in a 10 gallon before, using a big rock to split the tank in two, and they were all happy.
As for the cyps I suggested, somewhere around 8-10 might be a good number. You might be able to push it higher if you wanted. If it was a cyp-only tank, 16-18 wouldn't be unheard of for a 55 gallon. FWIW it's typically hard to find larger cyps ( >2" ), so depending on the size of your other fish you might have to spend some time growing them out before they can be introduced.
Thanks for the input. I'm a bit scared to put my brevis pair in with the leleupi...I've read some horror stories about leleupi killing brevis to get at fry.
I appreciate the stocking input also for the cyps. I'm looking to buy local as I have heard cyps often don't ship well, so I am checking with some MCA members who have some varieties to see what they have right now.
This is not something that has to happen immediately, though I'd like it to, so I will continue to see what I can find in the area.
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Ron - Sorry, to clarify I am thinking 3-4 max species. I was listing all the species I have currently in case there was a better mix than my plan. They are in different tanks currently.
Ah, gotcha. I was originally thinking that, but wasn't too sure. I don't know much about hecqui personally. I think a pair of julies and a pair of leleupi would be a nice combo and expect them to split the tank with good aquascaping. If you add in a pair of shellies, N. brevis require the least space out of them all IME. I've kept 2 adult pairs in a 10 gallon before, using a big rock to split the tank in two, and they were all happy.
As for the cyps I suggested, somewhere around 8-10 might be a good number. You might be able to push it higher if you wanted. If it was a cyp-only tank, 16-18 wouldn't be unheard of for a 55 gallon. FWIW it's typically hard to find larger cyps ( >2" ), so depending on the size of your other fish you might have to spend some time growing them out before they can be introduced.
Thanks for the input. I'm a bit scared to put my brevis pair in with the leleupi...I've read some horror stories about leleupi killing brevis to get at fry.
I appreciate the stocking input also for the cyps. I'm looking to buy local as I have heard cyps often don't ship well, so I am checking with some MCA members who have some varieties to see what they have right now.
This is not something that has to happen immediately, though I'd like it to, so I will continue to see what I can find in the area.
Let me know what cyps you are looking for. I know some breeders in Ohio, which is where I got mine.
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Ron - Sorry, to clarify I am thinking 3-4 max species. I was listing all the species I have currently in case there was a better mix than my plan. They are in different tanks currently.
Ah, gotcha. I was originally thinking that, but wasn't too sure. I don't know much about hecqui personally. I think a pair of julies and a pair of leleupi would be a nice combo and expect them to split the tank with good aquascaping. If you add in a pair of shellies, N. brevis require the least space out of them all IME. I've kept 2 adult pairs in a 10 gallon before, using a big rock to split the tank in two, and they were all happy.
As for the cyps I suggested, somewhere around 8-10 might be a good number. You might be able to push it higher if you wanted. If it was a cyp-only tank, 16-18 wouldn't be unheard of for a 55 gallon. FWIW it's typically hard to find larger cyps ( >2" ), so depending on the size of your other fish you might have to spend some time growing them out before they can be introduced.
Thanks for the input. I'm a bit scared to put my brevis pair in with the leleupi...I've read some horror stories about leleupi killing brevis to get at fry.
I appreciate the stocking input also for the cyps. I'm looking to buy local as I have heard cyps often don't ship well, so I am checking with some MCA members who have some varieties to see what they have right now.
This is not something that has to happen immediately, though I'd like it to, so I will continue to see what I can find in the area.
Let me know what cyps you are looking for. I know some breeders in Ohio, which is where I got mine.
Will let you know once I know better. I'm still looking at different varieties. :)
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Thanks for the input. I'm a bit scared to put my brevis pair in with the leleupi...I've read some horror stories about leleupi killing brevis to get at fry.
If it was me, I'd probably just skip adding any shellies for this tank. It really just depends on your desire to keep shellies and how many tanks you have available.
I appreciate the stocking input also for the cyps. I'm looking to buy local as I have heard cyps often don't ship well, so I am checking with some MCA members who have some varieties to see what they have right now.
Yep, finding them local would be cheaper than having them shipped and risking losses.
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Thanks for the input. I'm a bit scared to put my brevis pair in with the leleupi...I've read some horror stories about leleupi killing brevis to get at fry.
If it was me, I'd probably just skip adding any shellies for this tank. It really just depends on your desire to keep shellies and how many tanks you have available.
My desire is to keep shellies and also to consolidate where I can. :) Where I can't, it just means less species, so not a huge problem. I have pretty much a fixed number of tanks right now, so it's a matter of getting rid of one thing when I want to make room for something else.
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Well, I put all the bottom dwellers in my 55 last night (leleupi, hecqui, julidochromis, plus a single black calvus). I am exploring options for where to get the cyprichromis.
So far so good, but I"m sure it will take a week+ to see how everyone is getting along. The aggression is much better though between the julies for example with tons more rocks plus the extra square foot of floor space.
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Well, I put all the bottom dwellers in my 55 last night (leleupi, hecqui, julidochromis, plus a single black calvus). I am exploring options for where to get the cyprichromis.
So far so good, but I"m sure it will take a week+ to see how everyone is getting along. The aggression is much better though between the julies for example with tons more rocks plus the extra square foot of floor space.
As this is the current trend....this new stocking of the tank did not happen
NO PICS, NO PROOF!!!
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Well, I put all the bottom dwellers in my 55 last night (leleupi, hecqui, julidochromis, plus a single black calvus). I am exploring options for where to get the cyprichromis.
So far so good, but I"m sure it will take a week+ to see how everyone is getting along. The aggression is much better though between the julies for example with tons more rocks plus the extra square foot of floor space.
As this is the current trend....this new stocking of the tank did not happen
NO PICS, NO PROOF!!!
No pics...come and see on the fishroom tour and be shocked and awed. :) Or I would settle for mildly impressed. ;)
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I'm also thinking about paracyprichromis nigripinnis as an alternative to cyp leptosoma utinta, depending on availability.
My first concern is whether leleupi or julidochromis is going to intimidate the paracyps. So far, the leleupi mostly stay in the bottom part of the rocks though. I would add in some nice vertical rocks for the paracyps. I think I could feed a mix of foods to make sure everyone gets enough.
Another factor is tank size. It seems paracyps plus cyps in a 55 would probably not work with the rest of my stocking? Unless I went small groups, e.g. long term a trio or four of paracyps (1M 2-3F) and then a small group of cyps (say 6 - 1M 5F or 2M 4F) of the cyprichromis leptosoma utinta.
Cost will also be a factor...I'm not sure I want or am able right now to spend $80-100 for a group of paracyps and then another $100-150 for a group of cyps.
The final factor is color/sex ratio on the cyps - if I really need a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio...a small group of cyps won't give me much color. And I think I would like at least a little.
Who has tried this before? Cyps + paracyps in a 55? And/or paracyps + julies and/or leleupi?
Thanks for any input.
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I've seen cyp/paracyp combos, but I don't recall if they were as small as a 55. It'd probably be alright with just those two species.
The problem with adding paracyps to your current julies/leleupi is that they are rock-dwellers too. The footprint of your tank isn't huge and you're looking for a lot of species that fill the same niche. I also think the paracyps are more delicate and would lose out to those other two.
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I've seen cyp/paracyp combos, but I don't recall if they were as small as a 55. It'd probably be alright with just those two species.
The problem with adding paracyps to your current julies/leleupi is that they are rock-dwellers too. The footprint of your tank isn't huge and you're looking for a lot of species that fill the same niche. I also think the paracyps are more delicate and would lose out to those other two.
After more research I'm strongly leaning either/or, not both cyps & paracyps. Especially with the other bottom dwellers.
I realize my tank footprint is smaller. So I'm trying to be careful about what I put in. The bottom is definitely stocked. But based on what I've observed so far, all the current rock dwellers stay in the bottom half of the rock piles more or less. So if I put some taller slate pieces, and or build the rock piles higher, I was hopeful the nigripinnis might work. I suppose I will wait and see what becomes available in the next month and decide between cyps & paracyps. If the paracyps were not working out, I have at least one friend interested in some, so I'm sure that could work as a backup. Not ideal for sure, though.
I'll do some more research on the paracyps.
Thanks for the input.
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I get what you're saying about stacking the rocks higher, but IME fish try to define territories as a volume of space, which includes upwards. Unless you're stacking rocks to the very top, all 20-21" of tank, I don't see it working out.
FWIW I had a group of ~9 adult paracyps in a 50L and they filled the tank nicely.
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I get what you're saying about stacking the rocks higher, but IME fish try to define territories as a volume of space, which includes upwards. Unless you're stacking rocks to the very top, all 20-21" of tank, I don't see it working out.
FWIW I had a group of ~9 adult paracyps in a 50L and they filled the tank nicely.
I see what you're saying. So basically the cyps would do better because they would stay out of the julies/leleupi's way, and vice versa?
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I see what you're saying. So basically the cyps would do better because they would stay out of the julies/leleupi's way, and vice versa?
That is correct. Plus cyps move around a lot more in the open portions of the tank. Paracyps tend to hang out around the rocks.
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In a standard 55 gallon tank (48x18x13) nothing is going to be able to stay completely away from the leleupi who will dominate the tank given the mix Dan is considering. It's true that cyps will tend to swim in the open water while paracyps will stay closer to structure, paracyps will not stay close to rocks that are on or near the bottom, especially with the julies and leleupis. They will hang nearer taller structure however. I use longer slate pieces (about 12-14" long) and one could use long strands of plants (e.g. anacharis, vallisneria) as well, placed along the sides of the tank or the back corners as the kind of structure that allows paracyps to be comfortable.
Based upon many years of experience raising paracyps and cyps I'd have to say that delicacy isn't the word I'd use to distinguish paracyps from cyps. Cyps are definitely more aggressive - especially the Jumbo varieties. Paracyps tend to be far less aggressive and thus often more compatible with other species in a mixed species environment. Both species could be considered delicate when it comes to shipping or transporting as they don't handle the shock of being confined in bags for long periods of time.
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Thanks for that input Jim. I still like the paracyps. We will see what works out. I do have some slate and or plants to use.
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Both species could be considered delicate when it comes to shipping or transporting as they don't handle the shock of being confined in bags for long periods of time.
I know this for a fact. :'( I still have that 1 that survived though Jim.