Michigan Cichlid Association

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Maize-N-Blue-D on March 31, 2013, 07:21:05 PM

Title: TLC - StartSmart Complete ! (and the Results ARE :)
Post by: Maize-N-Blue-D on March 31, 2013, 07:21:05 PM
I just set up my 2nd 55 tank this weekend and I have a question about StartSmart Complete - The directions say to add fish immediately after dosing with StartSmart Complete.  I am planning on adding some "starter fish" until I am confident that the cycle has completed.  My question is do you have to add fish or can you simply add in ammonia to get the bacteria going?  If just ammonia, how much ammonia do you need to add for a 55 gallon tank.
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: RichE on March 31, 2013, 07:51:52 PM
I just put in some start smart complete and a sponge from another tank and add fish. Never had a problem
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: Maize-N-Blue-D on March 31, 2013, 08:14:02 PM
I've had the Cascade 300 and the AC 30 running on my 1st 55 for the past 5 weeks.  I just moved them to the 2nd 55, so add in the StartSmart Complete and fish and I should be good ? 
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: RichE on March 31, 2013, 08:17:04 PM
As long as the media from the filters stays in for awhile you are good
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: jcunningham0295 on March 31, 2013, 08:47:16 PM
I just put in some start smart complete and a sponge from another tank and add fish. Never had a problem

Same here, just used some yesterday on two more 75 gallon tanks.  No issue, I have used it several times before.
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: Maize-N-Blue-D on March 31, 2013, 08:52:05 PM
Wow - this stuff is magic in a bottle,  definitely better than waiting 7 weeks for a fish-in cycle...
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: Maize-N-Blue-D on March 31, 2013, 09:24:24 PM
Riche - now I am looking for a couple more hob filters, what do you have available in your stock ?
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: RichE on March 31, 2013, 09:41:13 PM
Riche - now I am looking for a couple more hob filters, what do you have available in your stock ?
I have all sizes but I have them boxed up right now as I put my stuff "away" because of the surgery tomorrow but hopefully by Friday I will be able to get around on the crutches enough and with the help of my awesome wife I will be back and open for business LOL I will be on a pick up only but can bring some stuff to the belle Isle trip as I plan on going with the family
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: linuxrulesusa on March 31, 2013, 09:42:18 PM
Wow - this stuff is magic in a bottle,  definitely better than waiting 7 weeks for a fish-in cycle...

One caveat with the TLC StartSmart vs. other products, e.g. Tetra SafeStart.  I've used both and am very grateful for all the free bottles of the TLC product.

However, I feel that the StartSmart does allow a higher nitrite spike (2+ ppm) vs. the SafeStart (1+ppm).  This is from limited testing - I only used SafeStart twice and then StartSmart about 3 times now.

Neither, I feel, is a high enough level of nitrite in a rapid cycle approach to cause a problem for most fish.  Since it is not extremely high and not extremely long (less than a day if I remember right).  But, something to be aware of.
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: Maize-N-Blue-D on March 31, 2013, 09:56:21 PM
That is good advice, thanks...I will be testing often to see the fluctuations...I'm glad I was able to seed the hob filters prior to setting up the tank,  that should make for a quicker cycle.

I am amazed at how much info you can gather from the MCA and the internet, I am so grateful to have access to this site as a reference. The people here are so very helpful.  Thank You !

Back when I was doing this 20 years ago, I had no idea how much the chemistry of a tank is affected by even the most subtle of variances in WQ...
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: African cichlid Keeper on March 31, 2013, 09:59:25 PM
I use tetra safestart work great.  :)
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: four_by_ken on March 31, 2013, 10:08:25 PM
I think together are way over thinking this.

Start the tank up... and fish slowly.. done.  That is what I have always done and over had issues.

The only time I think this add a bottle bacteria stuff is needed is when you have to introduce a lot of fish all at once.
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: linuxrulesusa on March 31, 2013, 11:32:17 PM
I think together are way over thinking this.

Start the tank up... and fish slowly.. done.  That is what I have always done and over had issues.

The only time I think this add a bottle bacteria stuff is needed is when you have to introduce a lot of fish all at once.

The bacteria will grow in time, but if you can reduce that time to a few days (bacteria in a bottle) or even less (cycled media from a healthy running tank), why add the extra stress to the fish?
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: four_by_ken on April 01, 2013, 07:37:31 AM
I think together are way over thinking this.

Start the tank up... and fish slowly.. done.  That is what I have always done and over had issues.

The only time I think this add a bottle bacteria stuff is needed is when you have to introduce a lot of fish all at once.

The bacteria will grow in time, but if you can reduce that time to a few days (bacteria in a bottle) or even less (cycled media from a healthy running tank), why add the extra stress to the fish?

It doesnt hurt anything.  But, I just never saw the need for it.  I never have had issues setting up a tank because of not cycling it.
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: Maize-N-Blue-D on April 01, 2013, 12:00:14 PM
It took me nearly 7 weeks to do a fish-in cycle on my first tank (using no bacteria in a bottle additives),  if I can drop that to say a couple of days, I would do it every time...I'm just not going to use my Africans as Guinea pigs.

Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: Steve on April 01, 2013, 12:49:40 PM
Quote
I never have had issues setting up a tank because of not cycling it.

IMO proper cycling of a tank is very important. Adding fish to a tank that is not cycled might not show any signs of harm that you see at first, but fish going through ammonia/nitrite spike that goes along with a tank that is cycling will do damage to their gills that you are not seeing and is not in the best interest of the fishes health. I fishless cycled my first tank and now just "seed" new tanks with cycled tank media.

Just my .02
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: Maize-N-Blue-D on April 02, 2013, 02:46:49 PM
So I added the starter fish and the StartSmart Complete to the 2nd 55 tank yesterday.  I can't wait to get home and do a test to see where it is at.

I suppose the only way to actually telll if the tank has cycled is if the Ammonia and Nitrite levels are zero and there is a trace of Nitrate showing up on the test.

Question:   Will I see a spike in either the Ammonia or the Nitrites using StartSmart Complete ?
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: linuxrulesusa on April 02, 2013, 02:58:40 PM
So I added the starter fish and the StartSmart Complete to the 2nd 55 tank yesterday.  I can't wait to get home and do a test to see where it is at.

I suppose the only way to actually telll if the tank has cycled is if the Ammonia and Nitrite levels are zero and there is a trace of Nitrate showing up on the test.

Question:   Will I see a spike in either the Ammonia or the Nitrites using StartSmart Complete ?

I do not recall an ammonia spike (perhaps 0.25 or 0.5 briefly) but it seems nitrites went up to 2+ppm for about a day then went away.  But it's been a while and I don't recall where I wrote down the test results, so let us know for comparison.

Are you testing with an API master test kit (liquid drops/test tubs) or something like the Jungle test strips?
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: four_by_ken on April 02, 2013, 03:59:07 PM
Just slowly add fish to the tank... no worries.  Set aside the test kit and enjoy.


 ;D
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: linuxrulesusa on April 02, 2013, 04:04:45 PM
Just slowly add fish to the tank... no worries.  Set aside the test kit and enjoy.


 ;D

IOW, 4xken will replace your fish if they kick the bucket.  ;)
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: Maize-N-Blue-D on April 02, 2013, 07:44:44 PM
I have an API test kit (no crummy strips being used here).  I have two HOB filters running that have been set up and were seeding on my 1st 55 tank the past 5 weeks.  So the filters should already have good nitifying bacteria in them,  the substrate is commercial play sand from Home depot, it has various sizes to it and looks very natural.  The decorations consist of field stone collect from a rock pile next to my house.  In all I have spent only $2.69 for a 50lb bag of sand and another $90 on a DIY stand.  The filters and the heater were acquired via a trade. I also have another $6.50 in paint to paint the back of the aquarium. I would say this set up is about as cost effective as you could get.
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: Maize-N-Blue-D on April 02, 2013, 08:02:30 PM
OK and the RESULTS are:

Ammonia = zero

Nitrite = Zero

Nitrate = est between 10 ppm and 20 ppm.

Conclusions:  THIS STUFF WORKS ! 
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: NorthernAquatic on April 02, 2013, 08:53:46 PM
I have an API test kit (no crummy strips being used here).  I have two HOB filters running that have been set up and were seeding on my 1st 55 tank the past 5 weeks.  So the filters should already have good nitifying bacteria in them,  the substrate is commercial play sand from Home depot, it has various sizes to it and looks very natural.  The decorations consist of field stone collect from a rock pile next to my house.  In all I have spent only $2.69 for a 50lb bag of sand and another $90 on a DIY stand.  The filters and the heater were acquired via a trade. I also have another $6.50 in paint to paint the back of the aquarium. I would say this set up is about as cost effective as you could get.
Cost effective?, YES. Congrats.
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: NorthernAquatic on April 02, 2013, 08:57:14 PM
OK and the RESULTS are:

Ammonia = zero

Nitrite = Zero

Nitrate = est between 10 ppm and 20 ppm.

Conclusions:  THIS STUFF WORKS !

Excellent news. The comments here have helped me to decide, to go ahead, and get a bottle to keep on hand. Thanks everyone.

Question, does this stuff have an expiration date/shelf life?
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete ! (and the Results ARE :)
Post by: Maize-N-Blue-D on April 02, 2013, 09:35:36 PM
I do not see a date on the bottle...

If you order there is a 20% discount code for the MCA = MCA20.

Go to www.tlc-products.com
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete ! (and the Results ARE :)
Post by: NorthernAquatic on April 02, 2013, 09:37:50 PM
I do not see a date on the bottle...

If you order there is a 20% discount code for the MCA = MCA20.

Go to www.tlc-products.com

Cool, thank you.
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete ! (and the Results ARE :)
Post by: Maize-N-Blue-D on April 02, 2013, 09:46:51 PM
The only ill effects from all of his was a spike in Nitrates in the 1st 55 tank.  After testing the 2nd 55,  I tested the 1st 55 and the Ammonia was Zero, Nitrites was Zero, but the Nitrates were off the charts.  I quickly did a 50% - 60% WC, re-tested and the Nitrates were back to normal. I will be monitoring the 1st 55 closely the next couple of days.

As a precaution I just ordered a couple of new filters from F&S: Bio System Power Filter & Oxy Surface Skimmer for $26.19 ea not a bad price for a filter that is supposed to handle 350 gph.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=16729&ref=4263&subref=AA&cmpid=E-_-TR-_-OrderConfirm-_-PRDT

(http://www.drsfostersmith.com/images/Categoryimages/normal/p-29158-39520-aquarium.jpg)
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete !
Post by: four_by_ken on April 03, 2013, 06:04:37 AM
Just slowly add fish to the tank... no worries.  Set aside the test kit and enjoy.


 ;D

IOW, 4xken will replace your fish if they kick the bucket.  ;)


 8)
Dont do anything stupid and slowly add fish... its a deal.  I will.

Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete ! (and the Results ARE :)
Post by: Maize-N-Blue-D on April 03, 2013, 09:04:54 AM
I went to the TLC site and found this info:

StartSmart Complete does not require refrigeration. StartSmart Complete is good for 2 years after purchase. StartSmart Complete is odorless, and contains no toxic chemicals. StartSmart Complete is the smart way to make your aquarium clear.

Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete ! (and the Results ARE :)
Post by: four_by_ken on April 04, 2013, 06:42:47 AM
I went to the TLC site and found this info:

StartSmart Complete does not require refrigeration. StartSmart Complete is good for 2 years after purchase. StartSmart Complete is odorless, and contains no toxic chemicals. StartSmart Complete is the smart way to make your aquarium clear.

Good for two years after purchase... I wonder how long after its opened.
Title: Re: TLC - StartSmart Complete ! (and the Results ARE :)
Post by: NorthernAquatic on April 05, 2013, 12:37:36 AM
Just buy the small bottles I guess. ;)