Michigan Cichlid Association
Pics and Video => Tanks and Room setups => Topic started by: djlamonica on March 04, 2013, 11:33:14 PM
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Ok well tonight I finally took some measurements and dry some plans out unfortunately I drew them on smart draw and it wont let me share to non members. Anyways this is what I have to work with and it is much smaller then I would like and also trashed right now.
http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b538/Fhfire/81EAF356-8173-4280-BC3A-8DCC659FDAE8-6298-0000033BED20B282_zpsb102c030.jpg
http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b538/Fhfire/B8D58393-B25F-4E19-9001-6B8E6C743620-6298-0000033BE31865A5_zpsf4816581.jpg
The room is 9x8 I was actually rather surprised as I thought it looked much larger, but it kind of puts a damper on my plans, no 6' tanks in this room unfortunately.
Ive done the simple lay out of how the tanks are going to be laid out and now I have a list of things to purchase and set up before I can even think about moving tanks or installing racks.
Here is the general idea though it may be tough to picture.
A picture of the lay out I took with my phone of the computer haha the green is the main rack the red is 2x55 the blue 4'x18' double rack, the yellow 3'x1' double rack, and the purple the sink.
http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b538/Fhfire/4D45796C-AC94-4327-8F79-0F966F8D7089-6298-0000033CBB630E6C_zps87f9dacc.jpg
The main rack in the room will be 3'x8 the bottom will hold 4-5 30/40B, the middle will hold 7 29G tanks, and the top will hold a mix of 20 and 10's some where are 7 or so mixed and matched. These will all be run off of 1 air pump. To the right 2x double 55's and in the corner a 4'x18" double rack (still need this), and to the right of the sink a 3'x1'. That is the plan any way so when its all said and done it should be about 27 or so tanks. (maybe pipe dreams)
1. clean junk out and remove cabinets
2. Figure out electricity (I may or may not do these myself)
-add more outlets
-install vent fan
3. insulate
-This room is so cold right now it's crazy I believe it may just be that the 2 windows and doors are very drafty so thats where I'm going to start by sealing those completely off. these will no longer be in use. and will seal with great stuff.
-I then plan to install styro installation board to the entire room prime and paint
4.Set up filtration
-purchase an air pump that will run the tank load or atleast the majority of the tank load
-run pvs above main rack and maybe to the double 55's as well
- acquire enough sponges/boxes/ugs to handle all the tanks
5.rack
-build the main rack
-run air line
-figure out lighting of some sort really dont have any ideas for this as of yet
I think Im going to start with those five steps and go from there. This will not be a quick process but I will update when progress is made.
Sorry for the long/tough read this was kind of for myself but feel free to follow along on this slow process.
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Well your starting out right by planning!!! My initial concern by looking at your diagram is isle space between tanks. You might want to try and keep at least 24" to 30" isle space between tanks. Looks good.
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I doubt anyone will care about this part but Im going to do a rough list of things I need to still obtain. Will start with the fish stuff. This is not a WTB as I'm not looking to buy right this second.
fish related:
air pump-$200 (if I buy new should run almost all 27 tanks if I go diaphragm and more if linear still looking into this and would love some input.
2x10g-$20
2x20g-$40
1x55g-$40
3x40B-$120
1x4'x18"-$30
misc-filter, lids heaters-$200
630 for the fish stuff I dont have
build mats-
insulation-$100
utlity sink-$65
ceiling fan-$85 (this is if I install myself)
pvc and valves-$25
lighting-???
rack-$50
Total-955
Well I'm sure Im forgetting something but that puts me around $1000 bucks to get this thing to its full potential. But no lighting. I want to set this thing up to work for as many tanks as it can hold so I don't have to go back and redo things with tanks in place.
I think that's all for now.
Please let me know if you think I'm skipping a step or over looking something.
Thanks!
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Well your starting out right by planning!!! My initial concern by looking at your diagram is isle space between tanks. You might want to try and keep at least 24" to 30" isle space between tanks. Looks good.
Yeah I did think of that and the second 55 wasn't originally there but I really need it I thought I would try and squeeze it in. But with the insulation going over the dry wall plus the 2x4 rack I don't believe there is going to be anyway I can do that. Only leaves about 12" in between and well I'm not a small guy.
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Well your starting out right by planning!!! My initial concern by looking at your diagram is isle space between tanks. You might want to try and keep at least 24" to 30" isle space between tanks. Looks good.
Yeah I did think of that and the second 55 wasn't originally there but I really need it I thought I would try and squeeze it in. But with the insulation going over the dry wall plus the 2x4 rack I don't believe there is going to be anyway I can do that. Only leaves about 12" in between and well I'm not a small guy.
So, to make sure I'm following, it was going to be 4 55s in the middle? 2 stacks of 2? Depending on your ceiling height if you can get a 40 long and a couple 50s instead of 55s you should be able to do a triple stack instead of a double and still get 3 tanks (still 1 less than your planned 4, but better than just 2).
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Yeah that would be possible but I think I want to use just the double metal racks as I have thme on hand plus I'm not a huge fan of bigger tanks on the third row.
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Yeah that would be possible but I think I want to use just the double metal racks as I have thme on hand plus I'm not a huge fan of bigger tanks on the third row.
I hear you. Could be tight depending on your ceiling height and/or a pain for doing WCs. I echo what Jeffro said though - leave plenty of room. I had a double row of 55s by my furnace but then with a file cabinet parallel...about 18" of space...major pain to get back there to do tank maintenance, let alone look at the fish. :)
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Looking good Dan
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As far as a pump goes, I would chose a linear. I have one from Ken's Fish that is running almost 70 outlets and actually looking at getting a second one the same size to run another 40+ outlets. Nice planning, it is always good to take your time with a project like this.
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I'll third(?) keeping a decent aisle space. Have you ever been to a fishroom with tight aisles? It's hard to bend down and access lower tanks easily IMO. I've often thought about putting a rack for 48"x12" or 18" footprint tanks in the center of my fishroom, but it'd make it a pain to snake around it for water changes and future removal of the larger tanks would be impossible.
I'll also second the linear piston air pump. They cost a bit more, but the maintenance is minimal, they are quiet, and they move a large volume of air. Their downfall is pressure, but IME it's only an issue once the tank is over 24" deep. That problem can be alleviated by putting the sponge filter on something so it doesn't sit as deep in the tank.
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Since I'm on a budget I don't think I'll be able to purchase jehmco air pump so I am looking for an alternative here is what I've found so far. http://www.theheckler.com/2013/03/03/kane-arrested-for-indecent-exposure-after-misinterpreting-medias-streak-question/
I'm looking for something to run 50 outlets. From jehmco rating the above pump should do that.
Actually I found the al-40 or maybe al-60 they are cheaper and stronger.
Just found another Air force pro 60 anyone have exp. with these?
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Since I'm on a budget I don't think I'll be able to purchase jehmco air pump so I am looking for an alternative here is what I've found so far. http://www.theheckler.com/2013/03/03/kane-arrested-for-indecent-exposure-after-misinterpreting-medias-streak-question/
I'm looking for something to run 50 outlets. From jehmco rating the above pump should do that.
Actually I found the al-40 or maybe al-60 they are cheaper and stronger.
Just found another Air force pro 60 anyone have exp. with these?
Check out the pumps at Ken's Fish. His alita linear pumps are the best for the money. I have one of these and one from Jemco, same size, and I like my al-80 better. Getting ready to order a second one soon for more tanks.
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How many sponges do you run off of that al80?
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How many sponges do you run off of that al80?
Currently I am running 47 sponges and 5 fry savers and a couple airstones. So all together at the moment I am occupying 54 outlets of the 70+ I tapped.
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Well I made some small steps towards the fish room. I scheduled the electrician and also purchased the pump, air supplies, and about 20 sponge filters from lens. I went with the alta -60 linear as it was in the budget. Clean out still in progress. Insulation and some other minor work will be done this week end . Pics when there is something visual.
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Well order came in and I really cant catch a break lately, I ordered from kens and am severally disappointed. The pump was never sent at all with no explanation email or call. They also sent me 20 of the stack able sponges instead of the ATI Hydro Sponge Filters. They also sent me and billed me for things I removed from my cart, only sent me one part of a dip and poor, and I also ordered a pound of food as the price was good and I figured what the hell, the stuff is crushed into a super fine powder basically only usable as fry food. Ill let you know how the customer service goes.
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Very pleased with kens after talking to them all supplies and correct filters will be in Thursday also I added 12 more I just couldn't beat the price on these. The room is finally cleaned out and the cabinets should be removed tonight. Electrical done later this week annd hopefully insulation and paint Saturday maybe rack build Saturday.
Still need more tanks!
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http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b538/Fhfire/IMG_20130329_204741_zps9172d901.jpg
Kens second order finally came in, I am very please as they did not charge me for the parts to complete the stack able kits and they also did not charge me for the 12 extra sponges I order.
SO I now have a total of 32 brand new hydro 4s which cost me $100 bucks.
On another note the room is progressing. The electrical is finished and insulation is started. tomorrow I have some buddys coming over and it should be basically tank ready by the end of this weekend if all goes well.
Ive had to cut down on a a lot so basically Im looking at about 900g of water but will see if any complications arise while rack building.
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Ken is a good guy. If something is not right, he will do everything he can to make it right.
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http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Fhfire/library/fish%20room%20progress
heres some quick pictures of what we got done yesterday. Not as much as I wanted but we got a couple racks built. I had to build the racks taller then I wanted because of reach and the way the electrical was laid out I must have miss calculated some where oh well it will still work.
As picked up 6 more tanks from Riche still looking for a couple more but in no rush. I was hoping to be done this weekend but with Easter its just not going to happen.
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Looking good. Looks like you made a lot of progress.
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Those colors on the walls will make the tanks look nice without backgrounds.
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Looks like you guys got a lot done after we left. Looks great.
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How are you supporting the cross braces (the 2x4s that the tanks will sit on)?
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Looks like you guys got a lot done after we left. Looks great.
I agree and I have to say you have a very great father.I could have talked with him for hours
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How are you supporting the cross braces (the 2x4s that the tanks will sit on)?
4 6" steel screws
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Looks like you guys got a lot done after we left. Looks great.
I agree and I have to say you have a very great father.I could have talked with him for hours
Well I can agree with that. With out My Dad helping on this project it really would not be getting done. Even though he doesn't understand why Im doing it or give two shits about fish he's still there almost every day helping.
Anyways after work my Dad came over once again we painted the rack and hung the air pump and all the fittings we did some lighting to hold us over im not happy with it but it will do for now. Until I can afford a couple T5 fixtures the 12 dollar shop light will work. I also have a ton of 4 bulb T12 shop lights but they just seem to be to heavy and also don't have plugs. We began setting up the laundry sink but soon found out with the positioning of the drain it just wasn't going to work so we are re doing the drain maybe tomorrow. Thats really the last big step before tanks come in.
I really had to down size this project One because the wife is more then irritated and two just general lack of space. The only thing Im really bummed about is the fact I just did not have to room to do a double 90/75 rack. Really bummed as those were my only "large" tanks in this room. Either way I picked up the last of my tanks today at the dollar a G sale 1 40B and 3 20Ls. SO this is the final tank count atleast for the immediate future.
1x60
1x55
1x45
1x40L
2x40B
9x29
6x20L
3x10G
Sadly that only puts me at 691 g about 300g less the originally planned. I am pretty bummed about losing those 4'x18" deep tanks because that means I really don't be able to keep very many if any full grown SA. But only being in the hobby a year now I believe this current room will be very manageable.
Heres a couple pics of the air set up
http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b538/Fhfire/IMG_20130401_212121_zps14142aab.jpg
http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b538/Fhfire/IMG_20130401_212137_zps56ded311.jpg
Should have tank pics up in the coming days Im going to paint the bottoms and sides the same blue as the walls I believe unless anyone has some reason on why that would be a bad idea.
Thanks for reading!
29x9
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Looking good,I would like to check out your fish room when your done.
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Looking good,I would like to check out your fish room when your done.
It still feels a long ways away, it may be done before the fish room tour, but I doubt fully functional, and also would be a pain to add a site a week or days before. Maybe I could hold a meeting here or something after it's all complete, kind show it off and the more experienced members can tell me what I did wrong. : )
Just an idea do people hold meetings at there homes ever is that a real thing?
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Coming together nice.
Makes me want one.
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Dan
Thats a wise Idea have a meeting at peoples houses, Ice tea and summer weather Only problem Dan is parking:(
It is looking good
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I did some filling of tanks today I'm now very nervous about the amount of weight these racks can hold.... Im emptying may be abandoing project and down sizing will take the night to think about it.
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I did some filling of tanks today I'm now very nervous about the amount of weight these racks can hold.... Im emptying may be abandoing project and down sizing will take the night to think about it.
Looking at the one picture where you have the 2x4's going floor to ceiling and then the 2x4 going from one side to the other, there is no support there.So your shelves are basically sitting on what ever you used to attach the cross boards to the 2x4's. If you were to cut 2x4's to fit between the cross boards (floor 2x4 to middle 2x4 and then on top of middle 2x4 to the top cross bar in the 4 corners of each rack (16 total in picture needed) it will give you a lot of support Just my 2 cents
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Actually the problem is bend on the side beam (or leg the is not doubled up) To be honest I think Im just uncomfortable in general with that much weight. The rack was built to maximize space if its not going to work and I have to add supports I might as well just go with all double iron racks which is possible I guess but not ideal and basically I would have wasted a ton of money not to mention the room just isn't set up for that. I may try and re think some things or just do 2 20 Ls on top add supports on the bottom and do a cross beam basically but I'm just not comfortable right now.
Wife wants me to sell it all keep a tank or two defiantly thinking about it as now this hobby is becoming more stressful then enjoyable.
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Actually the problem is bend on the side beam (or leg the is not doubled up) To be honest I think Im just uncomfortable in general with that much weight. The rack was built to maximize space if its not going to work and I have to add supports I might as well just go with all double iron racks which is possible I guess but not ideal and basically I would have wasted a ton of money not to mention the room just isn't set up for that. I may try and re think some things or just do 2 20 Ls on top add supports on the bottom and do a cross beam basically but I'm just not comfortable right now.
Wife wants me to sell it all keep a tank or two defiantly thinking about it as now this hobby is becoming more stressful then enjoyable.
Hope it works out but don't feel pressure to have a 'fish room' just because others do. My tanks are gradually consolidating which makes for tough calls on what to keep. Also consider your wife's input as she is far more important than fish. My wife is OK with my fish right now but push come to shove the tanks would be gone if needed.
Anyway, hope you can figure it out.
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While I agree with Rich regarding notching your 2 x 4's to increase support, you should be fine with that configuration. The weak points would be where the "shelves" meet the posts. If you don't feel like completely rebuilding, you can always add metal joint plates or angles to help support the weight. I'll take a picture of a rack I just built last year to give you an idea of how much weight 2 x 4's can support.
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Well I may have imagined it I could have sworn I saw bend where the 2x4 leg meets the frame. I'm just going to reinforce this weekend may add metal as well.
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I filled the 6 tanks on the rack I am worried about Im going to monitor for a couple days before I make final decisions. I think alot of it was in my head and the fact that every is going slow and taking much longer then expected.
I also flooded the room for the first but not last time while doing this....
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Lol! Get ready for more floods..... it'll happen again.
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If you need help with your racks let me know.I will be more then happy to help you out.
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hmm Well I filled up the racks felt really good about the amount they could hold so I started setting up sponges and air line. I guess I needed a bigger pump.........
tanks on the bottom and middle wont bubble at all unless like half the switches are turned off. back to the drawing board. Again.
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What diameter pipe are you using?
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Are you using air stones in your sponge filters?
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What diameter pipe are you using?
1/2 "
I have never used air stones should I?
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What diameter pipe are you using?
1/2 "
I have never used air stones should I?
Blair taught me not to use air stones and it made a huge difference.
Go around and make sure all your valves are connected and there are no "open" line's. I had a line come off once and it caused the the sponge filters not to bubble correctly
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Hmm all my lines are open lol I didn't want to move on until I knew my last in row would work.
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That makes me sound very stupid I have already tried turning like half of the valves completely off and Im not getting the pressure Id like my last row I may just have to move the pump down and have to run a bunch of the tanks off of other smaller air pumps.... not really what I wanted to do but oh well.
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run your pump with all vales closed and then open the farthest one let it run for a few min and then start opening valves fartest from the end and move towards to pump. when all done take the line off the last valve and then put it back on. Its like bleeding brakes.
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hmm ill give it a shot
I still dont think it has the power to make it all the way down the line and then down 7' to a triple split line........
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hmm ill give it a shot
I still dont think it has the power to make it all the way down the line and then down 7' to a triple split line........
might be a bad pump, I have one about the same size as yours and it is/was running 25+ sponge filters and it's a 10ft run at the longest run 1/2 pipe
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Mine is a 9 foot run hits a 90 and goes down another 8' I think I just need to move it closer to the larger racks is all and I should be good.
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Could be you size PVC. I am running 1 1/2" out of them pump and reduced to 1". I just tapped mine out last night and had to hook up my second one for my racks. I am running 44 sponges off the first one with no issue, had it up to 58 outlets last night, but could not run anymore. Had to switch the ball valve and hook up the spare.
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Mine is a 9 foot run hits a 90 and goes down another 8' I think I just need to move it closer to the larger racks is all and I should be good.
Is your pipe run in a loop?
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Mine is a 9 foot run hits a 90 and goes down another 8' I think I just need to move it closer to the larger racks is all and I should be good.
Is your pipe run in a loop?
No. Should it be?
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I shortened the lengths now I'm only like 3' hit a 90 and then 8' still not working. The thing pumps like crazy when I'm directly hooked up but as soon as I split to run more then 1 sponge on a tank I lose a ton of pressure.
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it needs to be in a loop, the pump is pushing all the air to the end of the pipe and thats taking away the equal pressure
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hmmmmm I guess my concern is more that through out the whole thing there just doesn't seem to be enough air flow not necessarily unevenness. Guess Ill re run everything in the morning oh bother.
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hmmmmm I guess my concern is more that through out the whole thing there just doesn't seem to be enough air flow not necessarily unevenness. Guess Ill re run everything in the morning oh bother.
since your room is a square, run the pvc along the top of the walls around the room (it willbe a big square loop with a open end to hook up the pump, then tap into the pipe place your valves and then run a single line to each tank. its sounds harder then it is
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http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b538/Fhfire/IMG_20130420_142141_zpsa2b6d3aa.jpg
Here is a quick pic of the general idea. Ill be re running the pvc this evening maybe im not sure. No fish room tour for me : (
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http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b538/Fhfire/IMG_20130420_142141_zpsa2b6d3aa.jpg
Here is a quick pic of the general idea. Ill be re running the pvc this evening maybe im not sure. No fish room tour for me : (
There's always Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, ect.... The Fishroom Tour is only once a year. Get your priorities straight, Lol.
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Made it a loop it is the same. Some thing defiantly not right.
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From the top of the room to the bottom tank you have a lot of room for the air to travel. Come on the fishroom tour and I will show you what I did with mine that should help you.
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Well here is my problem everything works well until I attempt to split so all my direct connects are fine but I wanted to run 2 hydros 4s on each 29 and 3 on the 40 B I guess Ill only be running 1 for each.....
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How are you splitting them, with a gang valve? I run two sponges in most my tanks and I found it works better to run an air line from the valve in the PVC directly to the sponge without trying to go into a gang valve and then split to two sponges. Meant more valves to install, but have better luck.
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Yeah gang valves. I got the idea after I went to the oyers bought the same ones they did. Next time Ill be doing only direct from the pvc you just loose to much with the gang valves it seems.
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Yeah gang valves. I got the idea after I went to the oyers bought the same ones they did. Next time Ill be doing only direct from the pvc you just loose to much with the gang valves it seems.
Yes you do lose a lot of pressure with gang valves. Also, the Oyers have blowers, not linear pumps. Lot different pressure between the two.
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Ok so little up date. I got the air system working after moving it and changing things about 7 times. I greatly reduced the size of my loop basicly the pump will only supply the 14 tanks on the larger 2 racks and 2 55's. Which leaves me running seperate air pumps for my other two 55's 1 40b my 45 tall and my 3 10's I guess I can live with that for now. after shortinging the loop and getting it to work and talking with people I figured out it was most likly the gang valves that were messing me up and that I could have probably done all my tanks with direct valves to the tanks. So with the problem solved I moved on.
I have filled up and set up sponges and line to about 11 tanks in the room so far heres a small album to show progress.
http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Fhfire/library/fish%20room%20progress
I hope to be finished soon. Also I got the go ahead to keep the 55 in the living room which is nice as Im already very short on tanks for some of my larger SA breeders.
When its all done Ill take a ton of pics on my wife's nice camera, until then the phone pics will have to hold you over.
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Link did not work for me.
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http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Fhfire/library/fish%20room%20progress
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http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Fhfire/library/fish%20room%20progress
A little more progress, hung to shop lights on the big rack moved the other racks into place, currently painting emptying and refilling and doing filtration for the rest of the tans.
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1 tank to go and its done. pics soon hopefully.
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Cool.