Michigan Cichlid Association
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Maize-N-Blue-D on February 12, 2013, 11:20:42 AM
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Has anyone used or know someone who has used Black Diamond Sand Blasting media from Tractor Supply as a substrate in an aquarium ?
Is this media safe for Fish ?
http://www.tractorsupply.com/sandblasting-tools-accessories/black-diamond-20-40-blasting-media-50-lb--3905403 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/sandblasting-tools-accessories/black-diamond-20-40-blasting-media-50-lb--3905403)
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People all over the internet use it.
The only reason I didnt was that it is a little on the sharper side than typical silca sand. And that is not recommended for true sand sifter fish.
But, that is all in internet reading that I found.
If I used it with fish other than our Albus, I wouldn't worry. These suckers are CONSTANTLY in the sand.
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I would beware of this, It says recyled who knows what chemicals are used to clean this.
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I would beware of this, It says recyled who knows what chemicals are used to clean this.
exactly my thoughts
PM Mandalawi, he found a good place for aquarium safe blasting sand.
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Thanks Blair,
Keep in mind i don't know if you would call it Aquarium safe. But i haven't seen any issues Fish wise that i can relate it to. It WILL however scratch your glass should you trap it in any type of sponge or magnet when cleaning the glass.
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Thanks Blair,
Keep in mind i don't know if you would call it Aquarium safe. But i haven't seen any issues Fish wise that i can relate it to. It WILL however scratch your glass should you trap it in any type of sponge or magnet when cleaning the glass.
So, what is this stuff?
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It WILL however scratch your glass should you trap it in any type of sponge or magnet when cleaning the glass.
Won't any sand do that?
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While searching the internet, here is what I found:
Black Beauty® Abrasive
AKA: Boiler slag, coal slag
Chemical Name:
An amorphous mixture of Fe, Al, and Ca silicates
Description:
A black boiler slag abrasive with the following advantages: low
moisture content, high degree of etch for permanent bonding of coatings,
readily used in standard equipment in commerce, inert, fast cutting due
to sharp angular edges, hardness, more economical,longer lasting and
leaves minimum dust
Typical Chemical Composition
Silicon Dioxide= 47.20%,
Aluminum oxide= 21.39%,
Titanium dioxide= 1.01%,
Ferric oxide= 19.23%,
Calcium oxide= 6.80%,
Magnesium Oxide= 1.47%,
Potassium Oxide= 1.60% and
Sodium Oxide= 0.62%
Grades:
Utility Grade #BB1043- A coarse grade used for tough blasting jobs
Medium Grade #BB1243- Used for general purpose repair and maintenance
blasting
Fine Grade #BB2043- Used for new construction, light paint and rust
removal, and for special maintenance applications requiring reduced
profiles
Extra Fine Grade #BB3063- Used to clean surfaces and create a smooth
finish, Brush-Off Blast, or in a high pressure water blast system
Typical Physical Properties:
Particle Shape angular, sharp
Specific Gravity (g/cm3) 2.7
Bulk Density (g/cm3) 75-1-- lbs. per cu. ft.
Melting Point (°C) greater than 2300
Moisture Content less than 0.5%
Conductivity @230°C (cal/s-cm-°C) less than 25 micro Siemens
Mohs Hardness @20°C 6-7
Free Silica less than 1%
Typical Applications:
Used frequently as an sandblast abrasive on sea faring vessels, tanks,
aggregate exposure, castings, structural steel, buildings, railroad
equipment and bridges.
Packaging:
Multiply paper bags, bulk bags and loose bulk
TSCA (SARA Title III) Status:
Unknown. For further information please call the E.P.A.
at 1.800.535.0202
CAS Number:
68476-96-0
Carcinogenicity:
o NTP= No
o IARC Monographs= No
o OSHA Regulated= No
Safety Comment:
When used as a blasting abrasive, carefully review and
follow the recommendations stated in the Material Safety Data Sheet
Trademark:
Black Beauty is a registered trademark of Harsco Corporation, and Black
Beauty ® Abrasive is manufactured by Harsco through its Reed Minerals
Division.
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People use this stuff all the time there is about 1000 post on mfk about this. It seems to be safe.
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People use this stuff all the time there is about 1000 post on mfk about this. It seems to be safe.
That is what I have found also... lots of people use it.
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I know of at least 10-15 people over on cichlid-forum.com that use it for years now with no problems. I have never personally used it myself so I can't speak on it beyond that. Just passing along that there are a lot of people that do use it.
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I have read that you need to rinse it a lot before going in your tank, other then that I say go for it. A 50# bag is like $9 so if you dont like it your not out too much
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I have used it for years and never had any problems.
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Well then looks like this a safe and cheap. Good call Ken...
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I don't mean to offend anyone but, it's Sand Blasting Media! They make this stuff it's called Aquarium Substrate. You can get it at every aquarium shop I've ever been in and even Meijer. If your going to buy enough of it most shops will even make you a deal. Washing substrate is by far my least favorite part of setting up a new aquarium, so I buy the pre-washed stuff. Don't skimp on the substrate it's one of the most important parts of the Aquarium. That's just me.
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Not skimping if you find a safe cost effective alternative, I learned about it from a breeder who has been in the hobby over 20 years.
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I don't mean to offend anyone but, it's Sand Blasting Media! They make this stuff it's called Aquarium Substrate. You can get it at every aquarium shop I've ever been in and even Meijer. If your going to buy enough of it most shops will even make you a deal. Washing substrate is by far my least favorite part of setting up a new aquarium, so I buy the pre-washed stuff. Don't skimp on the substrate it's one of the most important parts of the Aquarium. That's just me.
I got ya man, but, here's the prob I have with "approved sand".
I've been going to my LFS since the 1980's (Royal Tropical fish) and when I got back into the hobby last fall, I went to Royal looking for sand. They had no sand, Mike that works there (and has for many years...Ask Tony he know Matt personally) he flat out told me (because he & Matt are super honest/nice guys) but he told me "We don't have it but just go to Home Depot and buy it for $3 for 50lbs it's the same thing we buy". Now I had already spent $500 or more there so maybe that's why he told me, but still, sand is sand from what he said' and if you buy "sand" at a LFS your just paying for nothing.
Just my experience.
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I understand, I don't like washing substrate. Everyone's entitled to their opinion.
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I don't mean to offend anyone but, it's Sand Blasting Media! They make this stuff it's called Aquarium Substrate. You can get it at every aquarium shop I've ever been in and even Meijer. If your going to buy enough of it most shops will even make you a deal. Washing substrate is by far my least favorite part of setting up a new aquarium, so I buy the pre-washed stuff. Don't skimp on the substrate it's one of the most important parts of the Aquarium. That's just me.
K you keep buying gravel for 20 bucks a 25 pound bag I'll keep buying the gravel that takes 20 minutes to clean for 4 bucks a 50 pound bag.
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I don't mean to offend anyone but, it's Sand Blasting Media! They make this stuff it's called Aquarium Substrate. You can get it at every aquarium shop I've ever been in and even Meijer. If your going to buy enough of it most shops will even make you a deal. Washing substrate is by far my least favorite part of setting up a new aquarium, so I buy the pre-washed stuff. Don't skimp on the substrate it's one of the most important parts of the Aquarium. That's just me.
K you keep buying gravel for 20 bucks a 25 pound bag I'll keep buying the gravel that takes 20 minutes to clean for 4 bucks a 50 pound bag.
Thanks I will! Maybe you should give a program at a club meeting on how to clean a 50 lb. bag of gravel in 20 minutes and see if you can get me to change.
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OK, I bought some aquarium sand. Only because I thought it would save me some time last weekend.
I still spent 20 min plus per bag (2 of them) rinsing. And it still took two days to clear up.
Play sand for me next time.
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I don't mean to offend anyone but, it's Sand Blasting Media! They make this stuff it's called Aquarium Substrate. You can get it at every aquarium shop I've ever been in and even Meijer. If your going to buy enough of it most shops will even make you a deal. Washing substrate is by far my least favorite part of setting up a new aquarium, so I buy the pre-washed stuff. Don't skimp on the substrate it's one of the most important parts of the Aquarium. That's just me.
K you keep buying gravel for 20 bucks a 25 pound bag I'll keep buying the gravel that takes 20 minutes to clean for 4 bucks a 50 pound bag.
Thanks I will! Maybe you should give a program at a club meeting on how to clean a 50 lb. bag of gravel in 20 minutes and see if you can get me to change.
Is cleaning gravel a hard thing to do get a few buckets split your gravel up fill it with water let it poor out swoosh it around. ta da!
Do you not wash the stuff you buy from the LFS?
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IMO people try to wash too large of an amount of sand at one time. Wash a little at a time and wait until the water pours out clear.
Then when filling up the tank, pour water into the tank on a plate so the sand doesn't get stirred up. Done properly the tank won't be as cloudy as people keep describing on here.
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Has anyone used or know someone who has used Black Diamond Sand Blasting media from Tractor Supply as a substrate in an aquarium ?
Is this media safe for Fish ?
http://www.tractorsupply.com/sandblasting-tools-accessories/black-diamond-20-40-blasting-media-50-lb--3905403 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/sandblasting-tools-accessories/black-diamond-20-40-blasting-media-50-lb--3905403)
Is this a black or is that just a name brand?
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It's black.
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It's black.
Oh that would look nice.
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IMO people try to wash too large of an amount of sand at one time. Wash a little at a time and wait until the water pours out clear.
Then when filling up the tank, pour water into the tank on a plate so the sand doesn't get stirred up. Done properly the tank won't be as cloudy as people keep describing on here.
Logic is not allowed ;D
Also Play sand is too fine if you are using any type of filter with a motor.
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not sure if its the same name brand, but Menards sells black slag in 50 lb bags as well, at less than $10 a bag. not sure if they've opened their new stores in the detroit area yet? i've used it with all types of cichlids for several years, from fronts to tropheus to shell dwellers, plecos and syno's. i personally don't think it looks good by itself, but mix it with white sand and i think it looks great.
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Do you not wash the stuff you buy from the LFS?
It's more of a light rinse. If I am using it to pot a plant, no.
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Logic is not allowed ;D
LOL
Also Play sand is too fine if you are using any type of filter with a motor.
FWIW, some types of canister filters are designed so that the impeller is after the filter media. So if you have sufficient mechanical filtration media, the impeller should survive sand getting sucked into the intake.
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OK, I bought some aquarium sand. Only because I thought it would save me some time last weekend.
I still spent 20 min plus per bag (2 of them) rinsing. And it still took two days to clear up.
Play sand for me next time.
Just a point of interest here. The "paver sand" (white & tan) from Home Depot...takes minimum washing and is very clear the minute you put it in the tank. Just passing that info along...because I have it in both my 55's and love it.
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I'm trying to stay away from white myself. It shows the fish waste way to easy. Luckily I only have it on a 20 gallon.
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For what it's worth, I've had good success with both the Petco brand 'sand', though it is expensive at $17.99 per 20lbs, and pool filter sand, particularly the stuff from Leslie's Pool Supply (color and composition may vary slightly depending on location).
The Petco 'black' sand may discolor slightly over time (fades to more of a gray) but has not caused problems with any fish I kept in it. I've moved away from it on most of my tanks because the dark is too dark for the fish (except for my shrimp tanks).
The PFS I get from the Leslie's in Taylor, MI, is a pretty heavy grain (marked as 20 grit) and doesn't get stirred up by my HOBs or for the most part by water changes either. And it's a nice natural tan color instead of a bright white.
So those are some good options as well. Especially the PFS, as it is $9 for a 50lb bag, and you can put a sponge over your HOB or canister intake and just dump it in, then rinse the sponge after 2-3 days. Or, use a piece of filter media twist tied or rubber banded, and skip the rinsing. It will clear up pretty fast.
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There are many opinions that were shared, but the emphysis of this post was to find out if Sand Blasting media is "SAFE" to put in an aquarium. It seems that many people have and / or are using this stuff without any issues. I was looking for a cheap substrate to help defray some cost of setting up another aquarium. MOMMA is starting to give me some "Dirty" looks, loosing (10) fish last weekend didn;t help my cause much. But I am just chalking that up to experience learned. I will be stopping by Four Seasons Concrete Products Inc. in Roseville to check this out. More than likely I will be getting a couple of 80# bags of this stuff.
Thanks all for your advice.
Ok so doing a "BLUE" Krylon Fusion or the Rust-Oleum’s Painter’s Touch Ultra Cover 2X, doing "Black Beauty" substrate, now I am looking for some Rock -possibly Texas Holey rock for my 2nd 55 Peacock tank project. I hope to have it going sometime soon.
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It WILL however scratch your glass should you trap it in any type of sponge or magnet when cleaning the glass.
Won't any sand do that?
Sorry just saw this. Yeah, any sand will do this but this stuff isn't like normal sand. You can push your hand into a bucket of sand when cleaning it. You would have a hard time doing that over and over with this. It is definitely sharper than normal pfs.
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Has anyone used or know someone who has used Black Diamond Sand Blasting media from Tractor Supply as a substrate in an aquarium ?
Is this media safe for Fish ?
http://www.tractorsupply.com/sandblasting-tools-accessories/black-diamond-20-40-blasting-media-50-lb--3905403 (http://www.tractorsupply.com/sandblasting-tools-accessories/black-diamond-20-40-blasting-media-50-lb--3905403)
Does it have any extra benefit over Sand?
Me Myself I wouldn't risk it.... Just get some tahitian Moon Reef Sand By Caibsea. I think that it's called "Super Naturals"...
More expensive? Yes!
Safety of Fish and Piece of mind? PRICELESS! ;)
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It (blasting sand) is a safe (proven time and again) substrate substitute, I think peace of mind comes from peace of wallet as well. Especially in the economy we are all living in now...:)
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Thanks for this thread...been planning to change over to black sand in a few tanks, so I'll try the Black Diamond media. I heard (years ago) that this type of media will abrade off the whiskers of cory cats, but have no personal observations to that regard. Cherry Red Zebras, demasoni, and Hap. moorii should good on black.
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I need to make a trip down river and buy a pick up bed full of this stuff, I can sell in the parking lot at the meetings Bring your own bucket LOL
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Isn't there's a Tractor Supply at 26 Mile and Gratiot? Seem to remember seeing it last year.
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Isn't there's a Tractor Supply at 26 Mile and Gratiot? Seem to remember seeing it last year.
There on the North west corner, there is a place down river that you can buy in bulk by the ton:)
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Wish I had a tank that required a ton of ANY substrate!
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I need to make a trip down river and buy a pick up bed full of this stuff, I can sell in the parking lot at the meetings Bring your own bucket LOL
Big mistake. Should have just infomed poeple right before the next metting or just showed up with it.
Now there are going to be like 10 truckloads of it at the next meeting!!!! lol
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So after weeks of research and debate I will be going with regular sand. Everything I have read or been told about Peacocks says that thier natural habitate is a sandy bottom against a rocky backdrop. The only reason to go to sand would be to allow the fish to do what is natural, sift sand. So why in the world would you used a sharp substrate. Last thing I want to do is cut up the gills of my Peacocks while they are sifting through the substrate. This was a very good research project. I found out that you don't have to spend tons of $$ on substrate and decorations. Peacocks thrive in simple sand with a rocky backdrop. This just saved me a ton of $$...Hello Menards..
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^ Just makes sure to wash it really, really well. The best way is to wash a small portion at a time, with many fill/stir/empty repetitions until the water runs clear while emptying.
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Great thread I have read through it all and contemplated this as well my next tank i will save some cash and just get some regular sand. I have no problem washing the sand (little at a time is key!). But, Great thread and cant wait to start up that tank soon enough.
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Thanks! In the end the decision was simple. Also I read several people suggest using a pillow case to wash out the sand. I knew that old Scooby Doo pillow case would come in handy some day. Rooby Roo !
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For what it is worth I would use pool filter sand, lot easier to work with than play sand.
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Good idea. Since I have a pool I know where to go to get the sand...
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The reason I like play sand more than pool sand... its more natural looking. Has a few different size "pebbles/sand" to it. Pool sand is all the same.
Cant loose either way.
I still want to sent up a tank with the Black Diamond stuff. Just dont know what to put in it yet.
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So in the end and after multiple suggestions - I used Commercial Play Sand. It was only $2.69 @ Home Depot. I did not want to risk damaging the gills of any of the fish due to the sharp edges of the Black Diamond.
I do like the Commercial play sand better - lots of various sized granules and more natural look.
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Pretty sure I am going to go with play sand in the new 150 myself. Mainly because of price.
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Pretty sure I am going to go with play sand in the new 150 myself. Mainly because of price.
And because you can make sand castles with it for your fish? ;)
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Pretty sure I am going to go with play sand in the new 150 myself. Mainly because of price.
And because you can make sand castles with it for your fish? ;)
No. :(
The Albus make their own and wont let us play.
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I have a couple of extra 50lbs bags in my sunroom if you want them....Bring some beer that we can share and they are yours....
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I washed substrate today and it sucked just as bad as I remembered!
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I tried the pillow case suggestion and it worked great.