Michigan Cichlid Association
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: scifisarah on January 29, 2013, 03:32:06 PM
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I lost one of my five Acei last night and want to make sure I don't lose anymore. It was inactive on the bottom starting yesterday afternoon and not schooling with the other acei like usual, and then by evening it was being pushed around by the filter current. I bought some "Fishvet" brand 100% metronidazole powder from the petstore today. The remaining mbunas all seem to be eating and active still. I noticed that a few of them have poop that has sections of white, but most of them are NLS pellet colored and stringy. I switched them from my 65, to a 40 gallon for a day, and finally back into the 75 over the weekend so they have been quite stressed between catching them and being put in different tanks. I also added aquarium salt, which I later read somewhere can be stressing going from no salt. I have been feeding them a mix of Hikari Micro Pellets, and NLS Cichlid 1mm which only the afra Cobue can swallow whole. Running the Fluval FX5 (with 2 week old biomax from other filter) and a well cycled Penguin 200 biowheel. Water changes every 3-4 days.
Should I do a water change and start medicating with the metro right away? Should I not add more aquarium salt for the water I take out? What Metro dose should I use for the 75 gallon tank and when and how long to give it? The medicine packaging is very vague and says to use one measuring spoon for 20-40 gallons which is a big difference. Please help!
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8507/8428172672_c208de8d80_c.jpg)
Never thought I would be photographing fish poop...
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8463/8427080349_027e880e9f_c.jpg)
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I would not take any chances if there is salt in the aquarium now I would do the water change (which will stress fish out more) then do the treatment, I think being proactive instead of reactive would be better.
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I could really use help now - I changed out about 60% of the water even though I just did on Sunday also. I don't use carbon in my filters, but am I supposed to remove my filter while I am treating, or keep it running? How should I dose?
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Get a master test kit not the cheep strips. And see what's going on in the tank would be my first step. Use carbon after treatment. To remove any chemicals. I always use carbon but never have had to do any treatments to any of my tanks I just have a prety strict water conditioning regament and works great. No salt for my fish
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The filters are absolutely necessary for the nitrogen cycle. While you should remove carbon when using medication, you should never remove filtration.
It's also reasonable to mention that some medications can actually hurt the bacteria colony and you'll see a blip in the nitrogen cycle.
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How old is this tank is it even cycled yet? The extent of water changes is a little extream. Imo. Moving fish constantly is never good either. What is your nitrite ppm and nitrate ppm. Also your ph range if you are using salt
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I did not think I should remove my filter, but one website advised I do so. LOTS of differing advice out there. Hard to take everything in when you are new to this.
I do have a master testing kit. My ph is 8.2, ammonia and nitrites are both 0. Nitrates around 5 ppm. I guess that means the tank is cycled, but I am trying to wean off using the Penguin Biowheel and just rely on the FX5 eventually. I have been playing "musical fishtank" for about the past month. Not a good idea I know, but I finally have a tank I am happy with in quality and size. The Penguin Biowheel has been running for over a year though.
I used the amount of salt API recommended which ended up being around 1 cup for my 75 gallon tank. I added it all at once, which I now read was probably not a very good idea. We also use a water softener and am unclear how that affects the salt in our well water. I think I will try to go without adding aquarium salt in the future.
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I did not think I should remove my filter, but one website advised I do so. LOTS of differing advice out there. Hard to take everything in when you are new to this.
I do have a master testing kit. My ph is 8.2, ammonia and nitrites are both 0. Nitrates around 5 ppm. I guess that means the tank is cycled, but I am trying to wean off using the Penguin Biowheel and just rely on the FX5 eventually. I have been playing "musical fishtank" for about the past month. Not a good idea I know, but I finally have a tank I am happy with in quality and size. The Penguin Biowheel has been running for over a year though.
I used the amount of salt API recommended which ended up being around 1 cup for my 75 gallon tank. I added it all at once, which I now read was probably not a very good idea. We also use a water softener and am unclear how that affects the salt in our well water. I think I will try to go without adding aquarium salt in the future.
well reading this I think you have stressed your fish out and the one could have died from stress playing musical aquariums and I do not know how water softeners affect everything, as far as reading other sites you will spend days and countless hours undo stress by doing this, "I think the best treatment is first if there is no salt in your water stop doing water changes, then I would treat but like I said I never treated with softner being in the picture this is where someone else chime in
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Should be at zero ppm on both nitrate and nitrite. But 5 is ok I guess. Are you using the high range ph test? I don't know a lot about acei's. But stres would be my best guess if only one died. Could have been damages in the moves. Just try to get everythang on a ballance and keep it there by not changing your water treatments I would wait a few days or longer before another water change. Tanks also go through mini cycles. When cycling. A few weeks. After the first cycle. Do you notice any smell ? Or alege?
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How do I keep my nitrate at 0, other than doing water changes? I am using the high ph test. No smell or algae.
Do you all think I should treat with the metro, or just wait and see if other fish show show more definite signs? I don't want to medicate if this isn't Malawi bloat and I am just over reacting.
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They will go to zero when your benificial bacteria is estabished. You can buy. What I use is stress zyme. Great stuff also stress coat also great stuff the stress zyme has benifical bacterias in it. Also seacherm. Watr. Conditional. You may be over reacting. Everyone who starts out does this. if you notice any more loss. Then there is a problem.
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What compound does the beneficial bacteria convert the nitrates to? I thought that was as far as the chemical cycle would go, so if you don't change your water the nitrates just keep building up. I think I will hold off treating for now and keep an eye on everyone.
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They will go to zero when your benificial bacteria is estabished. You can buy. What I use is stress zyme. Great stuff also stress coat also great stuff the stress zyme has benifical bacterias in it. Also seacherm. Watr. Conditional. You may be over reacting. Everyone who starts out does this. if you notice any more loss. Then there is a problem.
The only way you should have zero nitrate is if you have a ton of plants. It would be nearly impossible for that to happen even with a heavily planted tank. If someone used water with low nitrates for their tank and the plants consumed nitrates at the same rate or quicker than the bacteria turned nitrite into nitrate, it's feasible.
I feel as you have been misinformed.
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What compound does the beneficial bacteria convert the nitrates to? I thought that was as far as the chemical cycle would go, so if you don't change your water the nitrates just keep building up. I think I will hold off treating for now and keep an eye on everyone.
It goes ammonia to nitrosomoanas to nitrobacter. Nothing further than that. They will keep building up without a water change eventually to the point your system crashes.
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They will go to zero when your benificial bacteria is estabished. You can buy. What I use is stress zyme. Great stuff also stress coat also great stuff the stress zyme has benifical bacterias in it. Also seacherm. Watr. Conditional. You may be over reacting. Everyone who starts out does this. if you notice any more loss. Then there is a problem.
The only way you should have zero nitrate is if you have a ton of plants. It would be nearly impossible for that to happen even with a heavily planted tank. If someone used water with low nitrates for their tank and the plants consumed nitrates at the same rate or quicker than the bacteria turned nitrite into nitrate, it's feasible.
I feel as you have been misinformed.
Acording to my test results which are mearly standard API. Test. My levels are zero not one plant in any of my tanks. Was just my two cents from my expierence. Your information is logical and noted
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Here is something for everyone to read I found this a long time ago.
How to prepare NitrAte bottle number two.
The following is quoted directly from an email correspondence from an API representative to a member of another forum.
“Liquid Nitrate Test Kits from any manufacturer can have a common problem with their last test solution. For some companies, it is bottle number 3, but for us it is bottle number 2. One of the ingredients wants to solidify out of liquid solution. If the test bottle sits for any period of time, this can happen. If this does happen and the test is performed without Bottle # 2 mixed properly, then you can get a falsely low reading. I have never heard of falsely high readings with Nitrate Kits.
I would try tapping your Bottle # 2 a few times on a table or counter
top. This should loosen-up anything that has solidified. Then I would
shake this bottle for about 2-3 minutes, to really mix it up. Try the
test again and hopefully this will fix your problem. With regular weekly
usage, this bottle should only need to be shaken for 30-60 seconds.
Always check results at the recommended duration of time. Letting the
tubes sit longer can result in falsely high levels."
Another nice little piece of info is every bottle is stamped with a lot number and the last four numbers of the lot number is the date it was made. And the tests are only good for so many years. Some last 3 years others last 4.
One of these two reasons are why you are getting a zero test for nitrate.
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My 4 year old daughter got a real kick out of me shaking the bottle like mad and counting. ;D
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Yeah it clearly states that in the included directions. These test aren't perfect by no means. I shake all my bottles. Before use I do a test on all my tankes every Sunday. During maintance.
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Okay, after reading the entire thread, these are my observations and recommendations.
#1 Try to avoid moving your fish so frequently. Not only does it stress them out, but the very act of netting them affects their slime coat and will make them more susceptible to disease. Adding salt to your aquarium is a good thing to help remedy this, as it promotes slime coat production.
#2 When medications indicate removing filtration, they are referring to any filter that has carbon in it because it will neutralize/absorb any medication you put in the aquarium. So if you're not using carbon, it's not a problem.
#3 I would wait a day or so before treating with any meds to give your fish a chance to recover. Withhold food for a day as well. If you're already using NLS pellets, pick up some Thera A and feed that to your fish about once a week to help digestion.
#4. Pick up some live bacteria and add some to your tank just in case. Because you've been moving your fish around so much, the last thing you want to do is stress them out some more with an ammonia or nitrite spike. Nitrate isn't as big a deal, and will be lowered when you do a water change. I would keep testing your water, and avoid doing large water changes unless your fish appear to be getting sicker.
#5 If your fish appear to still be acting up after a day, then treat with meds. Keep in mind, medication can be stressful for fish as well, so while you want to heal your fish, you don't want to overdo it either, so make sure you dose according to the instructions that come with the meds.
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I guess I would have been more helpfull if I explained why to use the products I recromended. In my post. Thanks for putting everythang into one well phrased post. I have a question. For marty or anyone realy. I'm going to set up a new frontossa tank this weekend. I'm thinking about 9-12 for my starting colony. I need some advice on this. I will make a topic in general discussion. Wil be thankfull for any help thanks
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#4. Pick up some live bacteria and add some to your tank just in case. Because you've been moving your fish around so much, the last thing you want to do is stress them out some more with an ammonia or nitrite spike. Nitrate isn't as big a deal, and will be lowered when you do a water change. I would keep testing your water, and avoid doing large water changes unless your fish appear to be getting sicker.
All very helpful tips, thank you. I have two size C cartridges in my Penguin 200 filter, one of which has been there for at least a month, and has lots of bb growing on it. Could I just remove the whole cartridge, cut it in half, remove the carbon pieces, and place them in the two baskets of my FX5 that contain the Biomax? I have to open the filter anyway to add more Biomax and some polishing pads today as I way underestimated how much media it would take to fill since I am not using carbon.