Michigan Cichlid Association
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: jcunningham0295 on January 27, 2013, 10:09:41 PM
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Due to some interest I thought I would start a thread about the growth of my Enantiopus sp. "Kilesa" fry. Here are some of the first pics today after I stripped them from the female last night. Right now there is around 30 of them in a 10 gallon tank with 10 Callachromis stappersii I also stripped last night.
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Cool thread Josh. I've kept a lot of different Tanganyikan's but have never kept the Enantiopus or other sand sifters such as xeno's, but have always been interested in them.
I know they require a tank with sand, and some open space. Is it correct like other cichlids they pretty much ignore other species - but are aggressive towards their own?
I know I will be checking in from time to time, curious to see how they develop.
Thanks for sharing - Jim.
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Those are guys are tiny!
Have you raised any kilesa fry previously or is this the first attempt?
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Cool thread Josh. I've kept a lot of different Tanganyikan's but have never kept the Enantiopus or other sand sifters such as xeno's, but have always been interested in them.
I know they require a tank with sand, and some open space. Is it correct like other cichlids they pretty much ignore other species - but are aggressive towards their own?
I know I will be checking in from time to time, curious to see how they develop.
Thanks for sharing - Jim.
Yes, I have them in with some cyps and from time to time the dominant kilesa male with chase one away, but most of the chasing is done with their own, but no damage is done.
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Those are guys are tiny!
Have you raised any kilesa fry previously or is this the first attempt?
Yes, they are tiny. I stripped the females at 15 and 16 days. My first attempt failed as I only have one survivor out of 18. However, I think this was due to me changing the water too often and too much when I did. I am going to try something different with these guys this time. Hopefully it is successful.
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Here are some updated pics. They are now a a week old and starting to swim all over the tank.
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Congrats, Kilesas are great-looking fish. Looking forward to seeing them grow.
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Their bellies look to be full. What are you feeding them, Josh? How many have you got at this point?
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I did a Google Image search on... Enantiopus sp. Kilesa
Thats a neat looking little fish!
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Wonder how these would do in my Albus tank.
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Their bellies look to be full. What are you feeding them, Josh? How many have you got at this point?
Right now I am feeding them powder brine twice a day. I think I have over 30 right now.
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Well things did not work out this time. Did a one gallon water change last Thursday and between Thursday night and Saturday I lost both batches of fry. Man these guys are very delicate. It is a good thing I just stripped another female tonight and got 14 or 15 fry and have two more holding. This time I am trying a magnetic fry saver in the main tank wih the breeders.
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I'm disappointed to hear they are that touchy! I'll certainly appreciate them more when I see 1"+ size fry for sale knowing what a potential PITA it is to get them that big!
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I'm disappointed to hear they are that touchy! I'll certainly appreciate them more when I see 1"+ size fry for sale knowing what a potential PITA it is to get them that big!
I know, same here. I waited almost two weeks before I changed any of their water. Maybe the saying "the third time is charm" will apply this time.
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What a bummer. At least you have some more to try again.
How many are in this new group?
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Are you on well water or city water? Any chance trace amounts of chlorine or chloramine were to blame?
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What a bummer. At least you have some more to try again.
How many are in this new group?
I think there are around 14 or 15.
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I am also curious as to why they died. Any info?
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Sorry to hear you lost both first broods, Jeff. In my experience they are pretty delicate for the first few weeks post-release. When I last had a breeding colony they seemed to produce about fifteen fry per spawn and despite care and attention to feeding and cleanliness the typical survival rate was often less than 50%. I was never able to identify what exactly contributed to the losses. Once the fry became about 1/4" or so, the losses seemed to cease. Good luck with the next couple batches. Keep us posted on your progress.
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Josh, one other thing I did was allow the females to hold longer, up to 19 or 20 days, and that seemed to help in my early experiences and although the yields were only about 50% it was better than losing the entire brood each time. One word of caution if you wait as long as I did to pull the fry: the females will spit in the tank when they are ready so if you miss the full-term day the fry will be released early in the morning and eaten by adults in the tank pretty quickly.
I've also tried isolating females in smaller tanks to release naturally but in both cases of trying that the females stressed so much they died overnight and the fry remained in their mouths but were dead each time. I had them in 20H tanks when isolating them. The species is not an easy one. Otherwise, you'd see them available more often and from more sources.
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Sorry to hear about your fry Josh.
One thing I do (it is with compressiceps - not kilesa) is do a water change on the parent's tank a day before. Then the next day I do a water change on the fry tank, and replace it with water from the parent tank. They are growing well and I haven't lost any. Don't know if this would help at all, just throwing it out there.
Good luck with the next batch! Jim
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Are you on well water or city water? Any chance trace amounts of chlorine or chloramine were to blame?
I am on city water and used declor. A couple people I talked too had suggested maybe there was some gram negative bacteria in the tank. They suggested I get a small uv sterilizer and try with that.
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Sorry to hear about your fry Josh.
One thing I do (it is with compressiceps - not kilesa) is do a water change on the parent's tank a day before. Then the next day I do a water change on the fry tank, and replace it with water from the parent tank. They are growing well and I haven't lost any. Don't know if this would help at all, just throwing it out there.
Good luck with the next batch! Jim
Thanks. I thought about giving this a try as well. The parents keep breeding so the water must be ok in their tank.
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Josh, one other thing I did was allow the females to hold longer, up to 19 or 20 days, and that seemed to help in my early experiences and although the yields were only about 50% it was better than losing the entire brood each time. One word of caution if you wait as long as I did to pull the fry: the females will spit in the tank when they are ready so if you miss the full-term day the fry will be released early in the morning and eaten by adults in the tank pretty quickly.
I've also tried isolating females in smaller tanks to release naturally but in both cases of trying that the females stressed so much they died overnight and the fry remained in their mouths but were dead each time. I had them in 20H tanks when isolating them. The species is not an easy one. Otherwise, you'd see them available more often and from more sources.
I did that this time, I let her hold 20 days so we Wii see if that makes a difference. I am thinking it will as you mentioned.
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Sorry to hear about your fry Josh.
One thing I do (it is with compressiceps - not kilesa) is do a water change on the parent's tank a day before. Then the next day I do a water change on the fry tank, and replace it with water from the parent tank. They are growing well and I haven't lost any. Don't know if this would help at all, just throwing it out there.
Good luck with the next batch! Jim
That sounds like a great tip.
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Josh, how's the most recent brood doing at this point?
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Josh, how's the most recent brood doing at this point?
So far only three deaths. Rest are doing ok and eating like pigs. Think I have around thirteen left. They were a week old yesterday.
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Here are a few updated pics of my Kilesa fry. Right now I have three batches in a fry saver still in the parents tank. I think there are around 30 of them in there. Lost 5 so far, so not too bad for three weeks on the first one and two weeks on the last two batches. A couple of them jumped out of the fry saver and became food very quickly. They are starting to be very active and are eating like pigs.
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Here are a few pics of my breeding group. The males are really starting to display and posture with each other. My favorite so far is the second one catching them in there circle roundabout. Currently there is another female holding.
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Looking good, Josh. I'm encouraged that you're managing to keep a large proportion of the fry going and growing.
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Here are some updated pics of the fry. They are growing pretty good now. Lost five since my last update, but all in all they are doing well.
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Well it has been a while since my last update. Out of my last two batches of fry I have around 20 survivors. Just moved them Monday night from a fry saver in the parents tank to a 20 long on my new rack in my fishroom. So far so good, I used ten gallons from another tank and ten gallons from the tank they came out of. No new water. I would have to say right now they are around 1/2" or so. Also ended up stripping another 30 fry and put them in the fry saver in the parents tank and have another female I need to strip in the next few days. A few pics of the fry n the 20 long and new ones the fry saver are below.
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I remember when Kilesas first hit the US market in the 80's. What stunningly beautiful fish. Mostly males were imported as they had all the color. When a few females arrived, people had tremendous difficulties getting them to breed succesfully. Stripping the eggs early didn't work too well back then. Letting the females hold longer, at least 2 weeks and maybe more, increased the success rate.
Maybe one day I will try them, but not today.
Congrats on your breeding efforts!